[felix123]

The previous post that I replied to stated that Doug Ford would not "wallow with the masses". My question then specifically asked if other Premiers did. So it is very relevant. Good attempt at changing the channel though.

Wynne is fortunate to live in an area very well served by transit and a short drive to Queens Park. She has not had to drive nor take transit from the outer areas of Toronto day after day. I would say that about 99% of people that live 1 hour away (or greater) from work complains about their commute (whether it is transit or vehicle). If Doug Ford did not complain he would be the unique one in his neighbourhood.

I don't think Wynne is "fortunate" to live in an area well-served by transit, I think like the majority of us, she chose to live where she chose to live.

When I moved to Toronto, I didn't say, "hey, my priority is to live in a big house with no subway or streetcars nearby," so I chose the opposite - - small apartment, close to everything.

 

[W. K. Lis]

John Tory’s SmartTrack plan faces uncertain fate as PCs refuse to commit to key policy

See link.

Mayor John Tory’s signature transit plan is facing an uncertain future under the new provincial government, with Premier Doug Ford’s Conservatives refusing so far to commit to a key policy that underpins the SmartTrack project.

In March, the former Liberal government pledged to lower the cost of GO Transit for trips within Toronto to $3 when using the Presto fare card, effectively cutting the cost of journeys within the city in half and pegging them to TTC prices.

Making GO travel within the city as cheap as the TTC was expected to boost GO ridership for short trips within Toronto by 10 to 15 per cent, according to Metrolinx, and Tory has described the policy as a “critical component” of SmartTrack, his plan to add six new stations to GO lines within Toronto.

The policy was to go into effect early next year, and cost $90 million over three years. But the Liberals said they intended to pay for it in part through proceeds of the cap-and-trade program, which Ford is scrapping.

At a news conference last Wednesday as part of his re-election campaign, Tory called on the Conservatives to preserve the policy.

He said the lower GO prices were a “major step forward in terms of choice and affordability for people using transit in the city of Toronto.

“And I know that the new government, the Ford government, places a real importance on keeping life affordable for Ontario residents, and so I am confident they will keep this initiative in place,” he said.

Following the mayor’s comments, a spokesperson for the Ministry of Transportation took the unusual step of reaching out to the Star to clarify the province’s position on the matter.

In an email, spokesperson Gordan Rennie signalled the government had made no commitment on keeping the $3 fare policy. “The new government is currently looking at all means and considering all options when it comes to making transit more affordable,” Rennie wrote.

The most recent SmartTrack ridership projections published by the city estimated the six new stations on the Kitchener and Lakeshore East/Stouffville GO corridors would attract 33 million trips per year by 2041, 6.2 million of which would represent new riders to the city’s transit network. Those numbers were predicated on the lower fares, however.

A city spokesperson declined to speculate on what impact not lowering the fares would have on SmartTrack ridership, but Eric Miller, director of the University of Toronto Transportation Research Institute, said the effect is simple to predict.

“If you raise fares, fewer people use the service. It’s pretty basic economics,” he said.

Miller analyzed SmartTrack’s potential ridership for a city report published in 2016, and found it would attract significant numbers of passengers. The plan has changed considerably since then, including being whittled down from Tory’s original promise of 22 “new” stations to just six.

According to Miller, the six-station version of SmartTrack would still be “well worthwhile” if the fares were set at the current higher GO fares. But he warned “if you keep it at GO fares, it’s going to underperform relative to what it could. You’re not getting the best out of your system.”

There is still plenty of time before SmartTrack is complete for lower GO fares to be implemented. The new SmartTrack stations aren’t expected to be complete until 2024 at the earliest.

But council voted in April to spend up to $1.46 billion on the stops, and work is proceeding. A city spokesperson said roughly $20 million has already been spent on the planning, design, and engineering for the new stations.

A spokesperson for Tory wouldn’t answer directly when asked whether the city should continue investing in SmartTrack with no guarantee of the lower fares.

“We have an agreement with the provincial government and Metrolinx to reduce GO fares in the city of Toronto by roughly half and the mayor has and will continue to urge the government to confirm that fare reduction on the basis that it promotes transit use, reduces congestion and helps make life more affordable,” wrote Daniela Magisano.

In an emailed statement, mayoral candidate Jennifer Keesmaat called on the province to “honour” the $3 GO fare promise. “A Toronto and GTA where people can get around quickly and affordably is critical to our economy,” she said.

The opposition NDP also urged Ford to follow through with the plan. University-Rosedale MPP Jessica Bell said cancelling the policy would “take money right out of the hands of transit riders every day” and exacerbate crowding on the TTC.

 

[jje1000]

So ultimately, what might be the ulterior motives for taking the TTC out of city hands?

Easier control of planning and construction? Perceived efficiencies? Just because Ford can?

It seems like a bit of political capital expended for something without an extremely compelling benefit.

 

[steveintoronto]

So ultimately, what might be the ulterior motives for taking the TTC out of city hands?

Easier control of planning and construction? Perceived efficiencies? Just because Ford can?

It seems like a bit of political capital expended for something without an extremely compelling benefit.

The logic (?) can be stacked up many ways, and it still doesn't make sense. Probably the answer to your question is "because he can". It's like a spoiled kid in a sand box, and he wants your toy because it isn't his.

One more thing to come back and haunt him, big time. But like any spoiled little brat, you have wonder: Where are the grown-ups who raised the little fugger?

In all fairness, there are many logical reasons to upload the TTC, let alone the subways, but sure as hell, Ford doesn't have one.

 

[crs1026]

I see an end game here. To have TTC operate an asset that is owned by the province, there will soon be a “service agreement” outlining what TTC must do. Once that is in place, it would be awfully easy to take that service agreement and put it out to tender. GO is the model for that. That splits subway staff away from the TTC collective bargaining, and brings in the private sector. Actually, it works fine with GO, so why not.....

Conveniently, it also makes it easier for the Province to say “subways are our decision, and LRT isn’t” - bringing future transit decisions out of City Council’s hands. And, since City Council won’t have the courage to raise any money, it guarantees that no LRT projects will be funded.

- Paul

 

[Sandpit]

The promise to upload the subway actually predates Ford and can be found in the People's Guarantee. IIRC the rationale is that the province can borrow against the subway if it's a provincial asset, meaning (at least in theory) more money for expansion.

 

[muller877]

So ultimately, what might be the ulterior motives for taking the TTC out of city hands?

Easier control of planning and construction? Perceived efficiencies? Just because Ford can?

It seems like a bit of political capital expended for something without an extremely compelling benefit.

I think it also goes back to the basics. The province will run, build and maintain cross-border transport and the cities will run, build and maintain intra-city transport.

If the electorate know who to blame for not building a new line we can now kick the correct person out of office. In the past there were multiple levels of gov't where everyone wanted the credit and no one was held to account for cost overruns nor delays.

This is of course all predicated on a fare system that allocates the revenue appropriately to each person...but once that is worked out I like clearly defined responsibilities.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think it also goes back to the basics. The province will run, build and maintain cross-border transport and the cities will run, build and maintain intra-city transport.

If the electorate know who to blame for not building a new line we can now kick the correct person out of office. In the past there were multiple levels of gov't where everyone wanted the credit and no one was held to account for cost overruns nor delays.

This is of course all predicated on a fare system that allocates the revenue appropriately to each person...but once that is worked out I like clearly defined responsibilities.

Except that there are also bus routes that cross-borders, and the is the question of whether subways is the right mode for long-distance cross-border transport.

Also, it isn't like the province won't be demanding (expecting?) tri-partite contributions either - and historically provincial involvement in GTA regional transit planning hasn't been great (see the last half century).

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Conveniently, it also makes it easier for the Province to say “subways are our decision, and LRT isn’t” - bringing future transit decisions out of City Council’s hands. And, since City Council won’t have the courage to raise any money, it guarantees that no LRT projects will be funded.

The City has and continues to massively fund the TTC. It's the largest single budget item for the City.

That splits subway staff away from the TTC collective bargaining, and brings in the private sector.

Highly questionable. The Province deemed the TTC as "an essential service" with a collective agreement. Just one more court case pending that Doug hasn't a clue on.

The real question is when does Caroline quit...?

And then there's the "Special Levy" for funding the SSE. Ah yes, the strawberries...

 

[nfitz]

The City has and continues to massively fund the TTC. It's the largest single budget item for the City.

Though it's funded more by the fare box than city revenues, collecting $1.24 billion from TTC fares in 2018. Compare to property taxes that only collect $4.17 billion!

In terms of where property taxes go, the police budget consumes almost double what the TTC gets.

If the province uploaded TTC, and increased the minimum cash fare from $3.25 to the GO Transit minimum of $5.65, and there was no loss in ridership, then TTC would actually generate a significant operating profit!

(though in reality, there's be decreased ridership, and more people driving, making driving slower for everyone).

 

[steveintoronto]

In terms of where property taxes go, the police budget consumes almost double what the TTC gets.

My mistake, second largest *operating* budget item cost for the City's budget. The capital budget isn't included in that figure. And that's an essential point of discussion, let alone compensation to Toronto taxpayers.

Just Googled to find Lorinc has written an excellent piece(s) in this:
http://spacing.ca/toronto/2018/08/20/lorinc-uploading-subway-system-a-disaster-in-waiting/

I'm sure Munro must have a few on-line too, and more to come. I sense a car-jacking on Ford's part, one that will end in his crashing, but not after maiming many innocent civilians in doing so.

Pardon my taking the opportunity to once more state for the record: The man's an fffing moron.

 

[nfitz]

Mandate letters were a joke and a political exercise. They didn't exist before these Liberals and likely won't exist after.

Mandate letters have existed for decades. What the Liberals have done recently both federally and provincially is to be more transparent, and make them public.

No surprise then, that Doug Ford has issued them, but kept them secret from the people.

Not only has Doug Ford not made them public - they actually went to the trouble of making them a cabinet secret.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...nment-will-not-release-its-ministers-mandate/

What is Doug Ford hiding?

 

[muller877]

Mandate letters have existed for decades. What the Liberals have done recently both federally and provincially is to be more transparent, and make them public.

No surprise then, that Doug Ford has issued them, but kept them secret from the people.
...
What is Doug Ford hiding?

The Liberal Mandate letters were a political exercise that just repeated the slogans from the campaign book. A joke. Would love to see which ones had actual action vs study after study.

Funny that you are suggesting the Liberals didn't hide anything while Doug Ford does. [cough cough...Gas Plant]

I look forward to the audit to see what other gems are uncovered.

 

[BurlOak]

The Liberal Mandate letters were a political exercise that just repeated the slogans from the campaign book. A joke. Would love to see which ones had actual action vs study after study.

Funny that you are suggesting the Liberals didn't hide anything while Doug Ford does. [cough cough...Gas Plant]

I look forward to the audit to see what other gems are uncovered.

As I recall, the Bill Morneau mandate letter mentioned running 3 years of small deficits and returning Canada to balanced budget for 2019.
Maryam Monsef's was to bring in electoral reform.

They were simply press releases by another name. Nobody was naive enough to think they signified an open government.

 

[nfitz]

As I recall, the Bill Morneau mandate letter mentioned running 3 years of small deficits and returning Canada to balanced budget for 2019.
Maryam Monsef's was to bring in electoral reform.

They were simply press releases by another name. Nobody was naive enough to think they signified an open government.

Your claims that mandate letters didn't exist before the Liberals was 100% wrong. And you haven't even attempted to explain why you chose to make such a false claim.

If we can't believe you on basic facts, that you won't retract months later - then presumably your other comments are also very biased.

I'd be quite happy if Doug Ford repeated bit of his campaign book in mandate letters. Because he also forget to release a campaign book!

Here's a newer report, documenting clearly that Mike Harris - that famed Liberal - also issued mandate letters to his ministers.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...andate-letters-to-cabinet-ministers-1.4802643