[BurlOak]

Most probable explanation seems to be a) DoFo can't pull his mental focus out of Toronto politics, and doesn't realise yet that he's running a province and it needs his attention and b) DoFo can't coexist with any sort of opposition or diverging opinion, and wants sole discretion over subway planning so he can rule with an iron fist. Seems like a lot of tactics without an end strategy.

- Paul

Uploading the TTC subways was a promise under Patrick Brown and Tim Hudak. The one thing I think we can say for certain is that this has nothing to do with Doug Ford.

I suspect the main reason is having the asset on the Provincial books.
Also, I would suspect that the PC's figure that they will in power for at least 8 years and may actually be around for the opening of these lines. After all, after the disastrous results (financial, not political) the Liberals had in the past 15 years, I don't think anyone will forget by 2022.

 

[hw621]

So if I were to read into this announcement, to me it seems like the province seems intent to move ahead with the Yonge North Extension and is removing the obvious roadblock (City of Toronto) from the equation.

and/or those subways to Pickering and Markham...lol

 

[syn]

I too am scratching my head about what the end prize is here. Moving the subway to a different balance sheet makes sense, but it creates so many transients and operational difficulties.

If the Province wants control of future subway planning and construction.... why? Opening day for any new line will be long after DoFo has left provincial politics. The Liberal strategy of just doling out money, and taking credit for that, and helping secure money from Ottawa, and taking credit for that, was maximum gain for minimum effort/risk. This proposal leaves the PC's accountable for any delays or overspends. North Yonge isn't such a political leverage point (it's blue already) to be worth the effort. Scarborough is already in the works, and as Ontario is contributing funds, Ford will be invited to all the ground breaking/ribbon cutting anyways. Contracting out the TTC is appealing, but he can likely force that without becoming the owner.

Most probable explanation seems to be a) DoFo can't pull his mental focus out of Toronto politics, and doesn't realise yet that he's running a province and it needs his attention and b) DoFo can't coexist with any sort of opposition or diverging opinion, and wants sole discretion over subway planning so he can rule with an iron fist. Seems like a lot of tactics without an end strategy.

- Paul

Because full control over subway expansion allows them to use it as a marketing/campaign tool. Continually promising subways to areas that 'deserve' one is a great way to keep your usual supporters (suburbanites) on your side.

"Vote for me and you'll get SUBWAYS SUBWAYS SUBWAYS!"

 

[sixrings]

The bigger problem is continued expansion of the Subway system outside of Torontos borders for Votes but no new lines in the city. Some lines are already hard enough for Toronto riders to get on if they keep expanding without adding new lines soon it will be impossible to get on if you are south of Eglinton. Expand yonge but you need to make a DRL long as well. One cant be done without the other. If scarborough residents feel like second class citizens now, wait until they cant get a seat at either st george and or yonge because the system is over capacity.

 

[syn]

The bigger problem is continued expansion of the Subway system outside of Torontos borders for Votes but no new lines in the city. Some lines are already hard enough for Toronto riders to get on if they keep expanding without adding new lines soon it will be impossible to get on if you are south of Eglinton. Expand yonge but you need to make a DRL long as well. One cant be done without the other. If scarborough residents feel like second class citizens now, wait until they cant get a seat at either st george and or yonge because the system is over capacity.

I think we've already reached that point, at least as far as rush hour is concerned.

The Yonge Line south of Bloor is generally packed fairly late into the evening.

Realistically the Old City could accommodate more than a few new subway lines - that's where the bulk of employment and residential density growth is located.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Maybe time for the return of the 19 CHURCH bus? It lasted until February 16, 1996, due to reduction (or elimination) of government subsidies. See link.

 

[DB9]

I think we've already reached that point, at least as far as rush hour is concerned.

The Yonge Line south of Bloor is generally packed fairly late into the evening.

Realistically the Old City could accommodate more than a few new subway lines - that's where the bulk of employment and residential density growth is located.

The irony of all this is that the "elites" living downtown are the least impacted - their transit rides are the shortest and in many areas of downtown the majority walk to work. This is basically self-flagellation and self-mutation by the suburbs.

 

[innsertnamehere]

hmm, never knew that Church had a bus. I wouldn't mind it.

 

[W. K. Lis]

hmm, never knew that Church had a bus. I wouldn't mind it.

Church even had streetcars, including the trippers. See link.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I knew that it had streetcars before the yonge subway, but I always presumed that service had been ended in 1954 following the opening of the subway.

 

[syn]

The irony of all this is that the "elites" living downtown are the least impacted - their transit rides are the shortest and in many areas of downtown the majority walk to work. This is basically self-flagellation and self-mutation by the suburbs.

I'm actually not sure that's true. I agree the DRL would have the biggest impact on suburban riders, but the congestion downtown affects life for everyone. If you live in a condo near your workplace, walking is definitely a possibility. For plenty of people, a short subway, bus or streetcar ride is necessary.

As long as travel times may be to the suburbs, I don't think people realize transit within the city can be disproportionately/relatively longer within the city for a lot of residents.

I guess not all 'elites' are the same.

 

[OneCity]

I'm actually not sure that's true. I agree the DRL would have the biggest impact on suburban riders, but the congestion downtown affects life for everyone. If you live in a condo near your workplace, walking is definitely a possibility. For plenty of people, a short subway, bus or streetcar ride is necessary.

As long as travel times may be to the suburbs, I don't think people realize transit within the city can be disproportionately/relatively longer within the city for a lot of residents.

I guess not all 'elites' are the same.

C'mon. The DRL isn't delayed because of any residents or councillors in the inner suburbs, but Id argue many Downtown councillors have wasted valuable time fighting to dictate to other areas, which in turn has taken attention away from their own needs. Blame the past leaders and Province, but absolutely nothing to do with the people here.

The select Downtown councillors from transit rich (or "elite") wards of the City are certainly much the same. Making part of their careers talking over inner suburban residents concerns and as far as transit is concentred rallying tooth and nail against well connected, grade seperated transit in these areas. Id say they received the recent push back Mayors and Premier they ask for, and can only blame themselves.

 

[aquateam]

So, this technically is a "2018 provincial election transit promise"

If elected, Québec solidaire is promising to equip the greater Montreal area with 38 new métro stations by 2030, an extension that would include Montreal Mayor Valérie Plante’s proposed Pink Line.

The party unveiled a vast project Thursday called “Grand Montréal express” that would come with $10 billion in spending in transport infrastructure during its first mandate.

The party’s spokesperson, Manon Massé, said the project is “a big piece” of Québec solidaire’s “economic transition plan.”

In addition to the 30 or so métro stations on the proposed Pink Line, which would link Montreal North to downtown and to Lachine in the west, Québec solidaire, if elected, is also committed to supporting funding for the already planned extension of the Blue Line to Anjou.

It also promised two new stations on the Orange Line, to better serve St-Laurent and Cartierville, a new station on the Green Line that would reach André-Laurendeau CEGEP, and two new stations on the Yellow Line in Longueuil as early as 2023. It also plans to eventually extend the Yellow Line to the McGill station, in order to reduce congestion at Berri-UQAM.

The party is also proposing a tramway on Taschereau Blvd. on the South Shore and a 30-station “train-tram” on Notre-Dame St. in Montreal, which would connect downtown to Pointe-aux-Trembles — as well as river shuttles, which would also go to Longueuil.

For Laval, it’s promising an east-west rapid transit bus service that would link to the Réseau électrique métropolitain (REM) project and the métro system.

Québec solidaire is banking that the “interconnectivity of modes of transportation” would encourage citizens to use them, Massé said, arguing that “today, two out of three people take the car by themselves to go to work.” The party would like 50 per cent of trips in the greater Montreal area to be made by public transit come 2030.

Vincent Marissal, the QS’s candidate in Rosemont — “where there is no métro station,” he said — maintained that despite Quebec politicians laughing at Plante’s Pink Line proposal, “Montrealers still voted for it.”

Even though Quebec Solidaire has 0% chance of ever being elected, it's interesting to see all of the transit proposals thrown together onto a fantasy map like this:

 

[Neutrino]

That downtown subway coverage would be crazy - 3 parallel lines. Wouldn't they cannibalize ridership from one another?

 

[steveintoronto]

That downtown subway coverage would be crazy - 3 parallel lines. Wouldn't they cannibalize ridership from one another?

You don't even have to enter Fantasy Land to do that. It's claimed in some quarters that REM's use of the Mount Royal Tunnel (thus barring the Deux Montagnes line from using it as well as VIA) would actually *reduce* rush hour load capacity into the core.

I'll dig for the reference if anyone challenges me on it.