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kEiThZ said:
Discussing broad politics here is rather pointless. Most the folks here are partisan ideologues who will never vote conservative even once in their lives. And that's not a condemnation. That's a recognition of their worldview. That, however, is not the general public. So best to discuss what the outcome and impact will be.
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Are we talking Conservative or conservative? There's a difference.

You're right, most people here wouldn't consider voting Conservative. This position isn't extraordinary. Indeed, it's consistent with the political leanings of Ontarians and Canadians as a whole. In Ontario and across the nation, the respective Conservative parties consistently have a support ceiling of around 40%. The remaining 60% of the population wants nothing to do with socially conservative politicians. Hence why at both levels of government, the leadership has put extraordinary effort at silencing the social conservatives in the party.

A view I see voiced fairly consistently on this forum and others is that people would have a lot less reservation about voting conservative, as long as the party banished the social conservative elements. Essentially, they want the Progressive Conservative party to remain true to their name.

The development of the Trillium Party excites me, not because I'm at all fond of them (I'm not), but rather because it represents the most legitimate chance we've had in decades of getting the social conservatives out of the Progressive Conservative party.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The Libs have a pretty terrible track record. However, what they’ve delivered is more than what the PCs are promising in the first place.
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Yes, the Liberals have given us a LRT on Eglinton which should have been a subway, that costed more than a subway and may never be able to be upgraded to a subway as demand exceeds LRT capacity. Congrats!
 
nfitz said:
If one is going to vote in favour of Transit - there's really only one possible choice, given the other two parties seem to be jumping the shark big time.
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Also at least the current Libs have been doing something with transit, which is more than we have been getting from well... decades worth of leadership from all the parties prior.

We are impatient, but holy smokes I don't want to go back to the consistent inaction and political transit mismanagement we had before.
 
Hopkins123 said:
Yes, the Liberals have given us a LRT on Eglinton which should have been a subway, that costed more than a subway and may never be able to be upgraded to a subway as demand exceeds LRT capacity. Congrats!
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The liberals are delivering more transit expansion today than we've had in several decades combined. Congrats, indeed.

What do the PCs want to contribute? A middling $5 Billion that might be able to build Yonge North, DRL and Sheppard East, if and only if the federal government contributes adequately (and no, the math on this does not work out. We'd be extraordinarily lucky to be able to fund just two of the aforementioned projects, based on the details in the PC platform).
 
Hopkins123 said:
Yes, the Liberals have given us a LRT on Eglinton which should have been a subway, that costed more than a subway and may never be able to be upgraded to a subway as demand exceeds LRT capacity. Congrats!
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That was David Miller. Metrolinx, and by extension the Liberal provincial government, simply adopted Transit City wholesale into the Big Move when it first came up. The Liberals have been enablers on bone-headed transit decisions (Scarborough Subway being the cream of the crop), but they really haven't been the instigators. Most of that lies at the municipal level.
 
Hopkins123 said:
Yes, the Liberals have given us a LRT on Eglinton which should have been a subway, that costed more than a subway and may never be able to be upgraded to a subway as demand exceeds LRT capacity. Congrats!
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The Eglinton West subway was only to go from Black Creek Drive to Yonge & Eglinton Station on Line 1. Which the PC's put a stop to.

The Eglinton Crosstown LRT (subway portion) is from Weston (Mt. Dennis) to Laird, and continues mostly at grade east to Kennedy Station, to serve Line 1 and Line 2.
 
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Hopkins123 said:
Yes, the Liberals have given us a LRT on Eglinton which should have been a subway, that costed more than a subway and may never be able to be upgraded to a subway as demand exceeds LRT capacity. Congrats!
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It didn't cost us more than a subway. Look at how much 6 km and 1 station costs on Line 1. Even what they are building now, a lot of it is above ground; it would have cost a lot more underground. And the east and west extensions are much cheaper as LRT.

Demand currently forecast is no where near LRT capacity. And if it was - Line 1 would be in deep, deep trouble.

Subway is still possible. The Eglinton tunnels are slightly larger in diameter than the Spadina extension.

TheTigerMaster said:
What do the PCs want to contribute? A middling $5 Billion that might be able to build Yonge North, DRL and Sheppard East, if and only if the federal government contributes adequately (and no, the math on this does not work out. We'd be extraordinarily lucky to be able to fund just two of the aforementioned projects, based on the details in the PC platform).
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That was Patrick Brown's platform though. One of the candidates has denounced it thoroughly, and another is poking huge holes in it, with the need to cut another $4 billion in spending, because of her promised revenue reductions.

There's no indication that the PCs would even finish Eglinton.

TheTigerMaster said:
Are we talking Conservative or conservative? There's a difference.
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In a thread about provincial transit promises, why do we need to talk about either, rather than the PCs?
 
Looks like they broadcast it on TVO at 8 pm and 11 pm.

TVO - the channel for people with no PVRs Or perhaps the later time-slot is the left-coast feed.
 
Imagine this:

Doug Ford is chosen as leader of the Ontario PC's. He narrowly defeats Kathleen Wynne's Liberals and Andrea Horwath's NDP. His transit plan is "subways, subways, subways," and he halts any work on the Finch West LRT and changes it to a subway. The LRT is currently forecasted to have 2,800 riders pphpd, and a subway built at every major intersection would have possibly less. Line 4 has around 5,000 pphpd. Could there be a chance this (terrible) scenario would happen?
 
chinesehorse said:
Imagine this:
Doug Ford is chosen as leader of the Ontario PC's. He narrowly defeats Kathleen Wynne's Liberals and Andrea Horwath's NDP. His transit plan is "subways, subways, subways," and he halts any work on the Finch West LRT and changes it to a subway. The LRT is currently forecasted to have 2,800 riders pphpd, and a subway built at every major intersection would have possibly less. Line 4 has around 5,000 pphpd. Could there be a chance this (terrible) scenario would happen?
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I'm a big fan of never saying never, but this seems unlikely. The RL has momentum, and funding for Line 2 to Scarborough line is not in the bag. To actually proceed with a $XB Finch Subway, while leaving those other projects in limbo, would create huge waves with the Toronto electorate. Once the first passenger falls off the platform at B-Y .... and this is about to happen, regardless of who is Premier.... the RL will become a political non-negotiable first priority. (Sad, but when it happens, I will say told ya so.)

And, while the Premier can say yes or no to funding, it's unlikely Ford as Premier could sway Toronto Council to agree to support a subway up there in preference to other projects. There would be Me-too demands from other Councillors, and noses out of joint - Mammo is not popular within Council, and if he got the biggest slice of pie there would be backlash.

Besides, there is a general lack of money. Ford might be likely to chop LRT "just because", but he hasn't a clue how to fund those subways, subways, subways. He would have to axe Hamilton, Hurontario, and Finch just to fund one subway. His transit plan will be smaller, although he will talk it up as bigger.

Even Mammo has suggested Finch should be a subway.....but only some day. Nobody will actually fight for a subway up there right now.

- Paul
 
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