[BurlOak]

I used to be on one of the NDP Riding Executives in my younger years and got lambasted when I failed to support Andrea Horwath one year. She performed poorly in the election prior to last year and I said she lost my vote. I then said I did not support the choices she made and could not support her leadership. I promptly got stigmatized within the local riding. Basically drink the kool-aid or get out.

This time around in the most recent leadership election I put Jagmeet as my fifth choice on the ballot. I have always referred to him as a token candidate, the person the party members put in place because they thought they would win over a certain segment of the vote that they otherwise would not. No matter how many times I told them he was a poor choice and would cost us the election I got treated as a turncoat and a traitor by NDP members. Turns out I may yet be able to say I told you so.

I told people during the last leadership convention that he will not win Quebec, the Atlantic Provinces, the Prairies and the North. I went so far to say that they would not win much outside Brampton or some of the BC ridings.

I have been voting for the NDP since I was 18, I was good friends with a former MP and I have been with them through and through but this year I am voting for Scheer. I don't like the Liberals and I absolutely do not think Jagmeet is capable of running a lemonade stand let alone a country.

Horwath could have won the election in 2013 - unfortunately, she propped up the Wynne government for a year to allow the public to forget about the McGuinty corruption and allow the public to view her a something new. That's were she blew it - almost more so than in the 2014 campaign.

Although I wasn't a member, I supported Frank Klees when Tim Hudak won and Christine Elliott when both Patrick Brown and Doug Ford won. I still voted for the PC winner, because the alternative (McGuinty or Wynne) were so bad.
Going back earlier, I supported Jean Charest over Kim Campbell, and then the alternate choices were better, so I didn't vote PC.

It's true in this election that Trudeau is just an absolutely terrible leader, so it makes sense that you do anything possible to remove him from office.
Or, maybe you are just growing up. After all, they say if at 20 you are not a socialist, you don't have a heart, and at 30 if you're not a conservative, you don't have a brain. (for some people,those ages may vary slightly.)

 

[Richard White]

Horwath could have won the election in 2013 - unfortunately, she propped up the Wynne government for a year to allow the public to forget about the McGuinty corruption and allow the public to view her a something new. That's were she blew it - almost more so than in the 2014 campaign.

Although I wasn't a member, I supported Frank Klees when Tim Hudak won and Christine Elliott when both Patrick Brown and Doug Ford won. I still voted for the PC winner, because the alternative (McGuinty or Wynne) were so bad.
Going back earlier, I supported Jean Charest over Kim Campbell, and then the alternate choices were better, so I didn't vote PC.

It's true in this election that Trudeau is just an absolutely terrible leader, so it makes sense that you do anything possible to remove him from office.
Or, maybe you are just growing up. After all, they say if at 20 you are not a socialist, you don't have a heart, and at 30 if you're not a conservative, you don't have a brain.

Funny you should say that.. I find the NDP to be a youth party. It is the party where the teens and 20-24 year olds go. Once you pass that age, all that activism starts to become draining and you start to wonder about your life choices. This was a by-product of Jack. Years ago, you could sit down and just shoot the s**t with Jack and get involved in politics. He once invited me for a pint after the Labour Day Parade to discuss current affairs.

Once I hit 24 I started to get drained going door to door every election, protesting everything and being asked for donations every month.During the 2015 Election I helped run the NDP campaign in Scarborough- Agincourt with the candidate Laura Patrick. I was 28 and really could not commit to 12 hour days of campaigns anymore as it was exhausting.

I am 31 right now and as I look at the political parties and grow older, I realize that life is about more than activism. As you get older, it becomes less about the activism and more about being an adult. At 31 years old, the only people doing the activism are the hardcore left-wingers who have way too much time on their hands.

At my age, the conservatives as bad as they are in Ontario are the only choice to get ahead.

 

[PinkLucy]

Huh, as I get older, I am more activist.

 

[adma]

definitely, the concept of a “wasted” vote isn’t a new one. I am just weary of seeing it used to browbeat or shame people into strategic voting. If we want to vote to stop something,: that’s fine. But telling people that they will be responsible for Armageddon if they don’t vote a certain way gets old fast. Guilt is a terrible motivator. Often effective, however.

And it seems especially prevalent in our silo-ized society, because to try to reach out and be "attractive" to the other side just feels like too much effort. It's easier to demonize from afar than to actively reduce their vote--so, the "united front" chicken technique is the easiest solution at hand. So if the bad guys get 40%, it's a matter of gunning for 45%, rather than for whittling that bad-guy vote to 30% or less. Bad guys Mars, good guys Venus.

 

[Richard White]

Huh, as I get older, I am more activist.

What I was getting at was that as you get older, there is less and less time for protests, long campaigns and days of activism.

 

[PinkLucy]

Welcome to retirement I have time.

 

[TrickyRicky]

BurlOak, that old adage about the life cycle progression from left-wing activism to Conservatism has some merit to the extent that conservatism is a movement representing the preservation of the established order; However, I think as conservative movements are taken over by their populist wings this notion is breaking down. Is conservative populism preserving the established order or is it activist? A desire for the return to "traditional values" as an example becomes activist when society has already been functioning a different way for a generation. The same could be said for the economic or other order. I think this makes things more and more muddled and traditional assumptions are starting to break down. Young Conservative populist activists could easily settle down and become more left-wing as they age in the new order of activist conservatism

 

[Videodrome]

Young Conservative populist activists could easily settle down and become more left-wing as they age in the new order of activist conservatism

I used to be more conservative, but now I am way more socially liberal.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What I was getting at was that as you get older, there is less and less time for protests, long campaigns and days of activism.

There’s a reason political parties campaign to the blue hairs. They vote.

 

[Richard White]

There’s a reason political parties campaign to the blue hairs. They vote.

That is true.. I know so many younger people that don't because they don't think they need to.

My philosophy is this: If you don't vote don't b***h. You have no right to complain about things if you did not vote. In 2012 I voted for and worked on the Tom Mulcair leadership bid. I regret that decision and I have every right to whine about how he screwed things up.

Those people who don't vote and complain how bad Trudeau is or how bad Ford is have no right to complain in my opinion as they did nothing to try and prevent it.

 

[BurlOak]

My philosophy is this: If you don't vote don't b***h. You have no right to complain about things if you did not vote. In 2012 I voted for and worked on the Tom Mulcair leadership bid. I regret that decision and I have every right to whine about how he screwed things up.

How did Thomas Mulcair screw things up.?
Basically he was pretty smart and had the NDP in a winning position until the radicals in the party were exposed.
The only thing he could (should) have done differently is to concentrate on keeping the Liberals in 3rd place - so that the NDP would be viewed as the natural alternative to the CPC - instead of actually going after Harper.

 

[Richard White]

How did Thomas Mulcair screw things up.?
Basically he was pretty smart and had the NDP in a winning position until the radicals in the party were exposed.
The only thing he could (should) have done differently is to concentrate on keeping the Liberals in 3rd place - so that the NDP would be viewed as the natural alternative to the CPC - instead of actually going after Harper.

He was controlling internally and wanted everything perfect. He actually controlled what MPs could wear during interviews and at events. The MP for Scarborough Southwest, Dan Harris was told not to wear a T-Shirt or be blacklisted within the party. Apparently he wore what felt comfortable at an event (that wasn't even radical or questionable) and got lambasted by Mulcairs office.

During the election wanted things so perfect he was cautious about what he said and in doing so sat on the fence regarding Muslim clothing. It cost him the election.

 

[Admiral Beez]

My philosophy is this: If you don't vote don't b***h. You have no right to complain about things if you did not vote.

I’ve never bought that argument. My teenage kids are under 18, so can’t vote, but they still have a right to an opinion and desire to enact change.

On the flip side, I always vote, but since I live in downtown Toronto east, if you’re not voting liberal you might as well stay home.

 

[Richard White]

I’ve never bought that argument. My teenage kids are under 18, so can’t vote, but they still have a right to an opinion and desire to enact change.

On the flip side, I always vote, but since I live in downtown Toronto east, if you’re not voting liberal you might as well stay home.

In their case they couldn't vote even if they wanted to and as such they have freedom to complain. Teenagers should complain as their future is being decided by someone else and they deserve to be heard. The argument I was making related to adults who refuse to vote but enjoy complaining.

 

[Videodrome]

I’ve never bought that argument. My teenage kids are under 18, so can’t vote, but they still have a right to an opinion and desire to enact change.

On the flip side, I always vote, but since I live in downtown Toronto east, if you’re not voting liberal you might as well stay home.

On a federal level, my riding tends to be Liberal. It did barely go CPC thanks to that 2011 NDP surge though. Provincially, it is very swingy and every vote counts.