[Dilla]

Why all the hate for working class ppl?

$100 000 a year is not working class. In fact, I'm quite fond of the working class, and I'd be much happier if there were two people making 50 to 60k, rather than one making $100k+. Aren't unions lefty and supposed to want to spread the wealth?

I don't hate them, I hate that we're all paying for them to make oodles of money for little work. Most of the people who take and pay for the TTC don't make nearly as much. It gets aggravating to think I'm paying for a job that exists only to benefit the employee, not the system itself. It is obviouslly innefficient to pay people to do this job. Most systems have moved to automation for this task, and I'm sure if it were up to management, they would. However, it would seem the TTC can't run it's business without the approval of the ATU, even in instances where it would be better for the general public. In the eyes of the ATU, the TTC is a job creating machine for them, not a public service with a duty to try and do what's best for those whom the system is supposed to service.

 

[Whoaccio]

Why all the hate for working class ppl?

Government employees earning six figure salaries sitting in a both counting change count as "working class people" nowadays? Somehow I don't think this is what Marx envisioned...

 

[rbt]

There's a shortage of drivers?? Are you serious?? Where do I sign up, I want to be paid $28/hour to drive a bus.

Transit operators apply via the link below. It also includes prerequisites.

http://www3.ttc.ca/Jobs/transit_operator_drivers_recruitment.jsp

What gets most people is the night work. All drivers work all shifts, including early mornings (5am start time for bus routes), late evenings (home at 2am) and overnight and even split shifts (4 hours in am rush, 4 hours in pm rush).

Pay is $20.66 after training is complete and increases to $27.38 after 24 months on the job (after training costs have been recovered).

 

[nfitz]

My beef is with the ticket collector position, and don't try to tell me they can't find people capable of counting change for $60 000+ a year.

That is a good question.

One solution here is to have more collectors, and less overtime; I can see that it might be tough to keep operators because of the ability needed, etc. But that doesn't seem to make sense with collectors - particularily given that it is primary a customer-service position, and many (some at least) in the position don't ... well seem to be blessed with any customer-service skills (though I must confess, I haven't encountered a real lulu for quite a while).

How does collector hiring work? My understanding is that many of the collectors are former long-time operators who for one reason or another cannot continue with their former job. As such, the collectors being overpaid might not be a bad thing, as if they turned this into a much lower salary, you might be in the position that a lot of the former operators would be on disability instead - which doesn't save you anything ... might even cost more. But how many of the collectors are hired directly for the task?

 

[Dilla]

One solution here is to have more collectors, and less overtime;

The real solution is to abandon the idea that this position is at all necessary. It really isn't.

 

[kEiThZ]

The problem is that they use their older or injured personnel to work as fare collectors. What's needed instead is automated fare collection and actual trained customer service reps at a few key locations. That's how its done in most of the rest of the developed world.

Older or injured personnel should be retired or given sick leave/disability. I don't buy the ATU line that the taxpayer should subsidize positions for older or injured personnel. If they are too old or suffer chronic injuries they should not be working, period.

WRT bus drivers collecting overtime. That's okay with me. They put in the hours, they deserve the pay. But management should be hiring (and they are) to make sure that they are dependent on making employees work 60 hr weeks just to keep the system running.

 

[nfitz]

The real solution is to abandon the idea that this position is at all necessary. It really isn't.

Given the number of times I enter TTC stations where there is no staff, perhaps they've already decided this

But I disagree - stations still need staffing. Check out other major systems; stations tend to have staff there most of the time, even with a full array of equipment selling tickets.

Perhaps what needs to happen is that these positions get adjusted into some kind of station manager position; though that's one of the suggestions that have been made about the second staff person on trains, is that it may make more sense for them to be on the platforms, once the automatic train control is in place.

 

[gabe]

588 TTC workers and 1006 employees of Toronto police making over 100 grand off the backs of taxpayers, no wonder the city is broke.

 

[smuncky]

we should buy some of these at all stations.

 

[afransen]

Depends. Some labour agreements make for 50% fringe benefits (as a percentage of salary), so the decision to hire or pay overtime is pretty much a wash at 150% base hourly rate in marginal cost.

 

[AKS]

I don't understand how TTC workers could be earning 60k+benefits and they can't get laid off due to union. It's one of the worst run company in the world. People are getting laid of right left and centre and they can't lay off any TTC workers. From years ago companies have already started firing full time staff and hiring contractors or outsource so they won't have to pay any benefits or severence pay. There is no such thing as job security.

If they disbanded the union, they can save money. Corporations don't like to pay staff OT. They'll make you work OT but they won't pay you unless you've worked over a certain amount of hours. Like if you have to stay late for an hour because there's too much work. They won't pay you. You just have to figure it out so you can leave earlier on another day. You have to get permission and work past the 2-3 hrs to get OT. Accumulated over time, it's a lot of unpaid hours if you don't try to make up for it yourself. And even if you do work OT and get permission, they won't pay you the time and a half. They would pay you less than normal hours even just so it pressures you to take time off instead of getting paid. The company can save money that way. So when it's busy, you work like a dog. When it's less hectic you get time off but it piles up and you work like a dog again. And breaks? What breaks? If it's busy people working during their breaks too. And the company can lay you off any time they want.

And if 100k is considered working class, I wouldn't mind doing that job for the rest of my life. There are people who get paid under 25k. They must be doing slave labour then.

 

[lordmandeep]

Imo The TTC should hire new young ticket collectors who are also trained as Costumer Rep.

Just not people who give tokens and then say its not my job to give directions.

 

[nfitz]

I don't understand how TTC workers could be earning 60k+benefits and they can't get laid off due to union.

You also don't seem to understand that salary is controlled by the Market. They have a lot of turnover and can't maintain a high enough workforce at the current wages - and you suggest that it's too high?

There are people who get paid under 25k. They must be doing slave labour then.

Pretty much - that is exactly what they are doing!

 

[afransen]

Does the union have anything to do with the TTC's difficulty in hiring sufficient operators? Obviously, existing members have a vested interest in seeing their OT continue.

 

[kEiThZ]

Imo The TTC should hire new young ticket collectors who are also trained as Costumer Rep.

Just not people who give tokens and then say its not my job to give directions.

I second this. In Munich, they had fresh young faces who dressed and acted like airline counter staff. They were cuatomer service reps. They helped you with directions, recommended places to see, etc. Compare that with the TTC.