[ssiguy2]

Although I can see your points I really don't think they are the real reasons for Ford's success.
Some may have wanted to vote for Smitherman but his Ehealth fiasco hurt him. Also he was wishy washy...............you never knew where he stood on something until the latest poll came out.
I think. as I have said before, TransitCity really hurt Smitherman. Whether you agreed with the plan was, by City Hall, considered irrelevant. The great word was spoken from the almighty Miller and City Hall and you were to embrace it, no questions asked. People were dubious of the plan and often quite hostile as they looked to the fiasco of St.Clair and voted no thanks. Unfortunately the city and Miller saw people's concerns as simply an inconvience so the set up the obligatory " community meeting" but not to get feedback but rather telling the people what they are getting. If you didn't agree with TC or LRT then you were named "anti-transit" or they would give you a condescending repetoire that "you just don't understand how it will work". The idea the people may not have wanted his plan in the first place never even crossed his mind.
In other word do as you are told as we know better than you. People dispise, and rightfully so, being told what they should do and think and their imput is not relevant. Smitherman supported TC and people saw this as not so much supporting a transit plan but rather the way it was developed with no real imput from the populace.
People saw TC as the ultimate example of City Hall.s top heavy policy development and management and they didn't like it. They saw Smitherman and Pantelone as more of the same and voted for a person who they see as anti-establishment figure to get rid of the mindset and hence mayor Ford.

 

[drone]

Someone in another reply to this thread mentioned the simplicity of his campaign was key,I agree. smitherman's and panatalone's camapaign was not as clear,and wasn't as focused on saving cash.
In an economy where people are losing money, a vote for ford was a vote to save money. It would appear,despite his negative behaviour (legal charges,negative comments),that voters choose money over everything. It has been said that when voters are fed up with poor economy,that they lash out against the status quo in politics (smitherman,pantalone,miller are all rather similar in their platforms). A vote for ford may not have been for him,as much as it was about "sticking" it to present politicians.

 

[Eug]

I think. as I have said before, TransitCity really hurt Smitherman.

Hmmm... I don't think know anyone who linked Transit City per se to Smitherman as a consideration for choice of mayor.

I thought his free pass for seniors idea was pretty stupid though. He just came across as ill-advised, and I say that as someone who voted for him. Same goes for his business tax for youth. His reversal on the tax looked even dumber though.

To put it bluntly, the main reason I voted for Smitherman is because he didn't seem like as much of a buffoon as Ford.

 

[Armbruster]

John Sewell, Haroon Siddiqui and Royson James and many others have explained the appeal of Rob Ford, and it has nothing to do with left vs. right. It is about head inside-ass vs. outside.

Exasperation best describes my feelings as I watched say, putative progressives like Giambrone bungle the perfectly-fine Lansdowne project with his top-down authoritarian arrogance. Ditto Pants on Ossington, Bussin with 204 Beech, Filion with Toronto a la Carte, Fletcher every time she opens her mouth, and so on. I swear to god, when Miller emerged from the strike last year claiming victory and snarling at anyone who suggested otherwise, I knew then that Miller and these other idiots were setting the conditions for Toronto's Mike Harris. I was half-joking to myself then, but of course it is no joke anymore.

The best hope for progressives now is to stop this developing narrative about Toronto swinging to the political right. It is not. But to be credible, they must honestly acknowledge the authoritarian shortcomings of the last council, and reset progressivism on its proper base of bottom-up local engagement. Here, on this one point, Rob Ford and I agree completely.

 

[Armbruster]

To put it bluntly, the main reason I voted for Smitherman is because he didn't seem like as much of a buffoon as Ford.

By the way, Smitherman's communications director Stefan Baranski and his campaign spokesperson Erika Mozes both supported Sean McCormick, the anti-TC, fiscally-conservative Rob Ford-esque candidate in Ward 19. This speaks volumes about the political confusion of Smitherman's shitty shitty campaign.

 

[js97]

Ford received over 1/3 or in second place in a poll in Toronto-Danforth.... 1/3rd! So to 'blame' this on suburbs is unfounded.
To receive over a third of the votes in NDP heartland, is saying something!

 

[PinkLucy]

Where are you folks seeing the ward-by-ward breakdown of the mayoralty vote?

 

[Simple Man]

They were likely working as volunteers...


Talk to a guy in the Northwest and he said Ford won by a landslide but voter turnout was not that huge. Anyways, hiis appeal was so strong, that he was able to topple the Miller ally Susan Hall in the ward beside his.

A vote for ford may not have been for him,as much as it was about "sticking" it to present politicians.

That makes sense, voters like democrats as much as Republicans, but just to stick it to Obama and the left many Americans will vote Republican. Actually if I was in the US, I would vote Republican even though I don't like them just to stick it to Obama.

 

[js97]

Should be published soon.. i scrutineered. break down poll by poll

 

[Glen]

The mood of the electorate was a simple of result of the dynamic that Machiavelli described........

Hence it is to be remarked that, in seizing a state, the usurper ought to examine closely into all those injuries which it is necessary for him to inflict, and to do them all at one stroke so as not to have to repeat them daily; and thus by not unsettling men he will be able to reassure them, and win them to himself by benefits. He who does otherwise, either from timidity or evil advice, is always compelled to keep the knife in his hand; neither can he rely on his subjects, nor can they attach themselves to him, owing to their continued and repeated wrongs. For injuries ought to be done all at one time, so that, being tasted less, they offend less; benefits ought to be given little by little, so that the flavour of them may last longer.

 

[Coltaine79]

Now, as we all know Ford has been vocal towards immigrants during this campaign, so why would they vote for him? Well as mentioned many of these immigrants were successful in their home countries, they've made it here. They may feel less empathetic towards others who are immigrating recently, especially those who are coming as refugees when they had to work so hard to get here themselves.

NOW I AM NOT ANTI-IMMIGRANT NOR DO I WANT THIS THREAD TO BE VIEWED AS BEING ANTI-IMMIGRATION! I am trying to explain such a radically hard shift to the right. If anything, I blame neo-conservative media outlets for blindly supporting a candidate who's numbers do not add up while packaging their message towards those with limited English skills, and for left-leaning media for not countering this with an easy to digest source for news coverage.

The problem is that if I stand up against the beliefs of white conservatives I usually get a debate going on that leads to greater understanding and more liberal views in the long term. When I stand up against the beliefs of sikh, muslim, hindu, tamil, or whatever immigrants who hold backwards conservative values filled with irrationality and downright racism and homophobia... well, I'm the one who's labeled a racist and the argument is over.

I think that this is a BIG Toronto issue. We need to start being equally critical of immigrants and locals, or we'll just let a bastion of unquestioned conservatives further influence the values of Toronto's next generations.

What silly, embarrassing posts. Makes me wonder why - as a VisMin - I even bother debating right-leaning & right-wing folks on message forums and blogs, when the so-called "enlightened left" seeks to burn all the ethnic immigrants at the stake due to not getting their way in a single election. And RC8, your sole anecdotal experience with one immigrant woman means jack shit. Why not just come out and admit Paul Fromm is your hero?

 

[RC8]

What silly, embarrassing posts. Makes me wonder why - as a VisMin - I even bother debating right-leaning & right-wing folks on message forums and blogs, when the so-called "enlightened left" seeks to burn all the ethnic immigrants at the stake due to not getting their way in a single election. And RC8, your sole anecdotal experience with one immigrant woman means jack shit. Why not just come out and admit Paul Fromm is your hero?

As I stated before, I don't think this was too significant in this election, but it's a rather relevant Toronto issue (which should be discussed in this part of the forum).

As an immigrant myself I think it's pretty fucking obvious to anyone who's willing to open his or her eyes that bigotry of all sorts is a lot less condemned inside immigrant circles than it should be (and this includes many 'white' europeans). While bigotry is present in white canadian communities, progressive people are quick to identify this as a problem, whereas if one says it's a problem that it happens in immigrant communities and should be addressed one instantly gets labelled a paul fromm fanatic.

Truth is that I as an immigrant can get away with all sorts of horrible discrimination and, if I say it's just a cultural thing 'cause I come from a catholic country, suddenly people think it's less of a crime. That's fucking bullshit. If you carry an ignorant background culture then you should get some education.

 

[brockm]

I think a lot of people are really missing the point here. Toronto, despite the success of the housing market, has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country at over 10%. A lot of the people who came out and voted for Ford were working-class immigrants. In fact, if you were a working-class immigrant, you were 20% more likely to vote for Ford than if you were born in Canada.

This is a broad-based trend that extends throughout Canada, the United States and into Europe. At a time where people are struggling with mounting credit card debts, and a poor job market, they are asking themselves why the government is not cutting back. Even my very socialist wife (I'm a libertarian myself), is endeared by the message of fiscal responsibility. She, like many others, worry about the consequences of government living outside of it's means. People understand that government debt is debt we all have to eventually pay.

We've seen what happened in Greece. And many of us can remember the early 1990s when Canada was getting close to being like Greece.

"Progressives" always like to err on the side of government "investment" at the expense of fiscal balance. They claim, if the government doesn't run up huge debts to build up infrastructure, the whole system will eventually collapse. And the truth is, that this mentality has not paid economic dividends in Europe. Progressives want more-European ways of government "investment" in society, despite the fact that European governments are facing serious fiscal imbalances that have grown and reached a precipice over the least 30 years.

It's reached the point where European governments are being forced into drastic cutbacks -- hence all the rioting.

I put air-quotes around "progressives", but I consider myself socially progressive. I'm an atheist. Pro gay-marriage. Pro-immigration. Etc. I used to consider myself a Conservative, but those days are long past. Conservatives are just big government assholes in disguise. Harper and co. talk a good game, but managed to grow the size of government more than any other PM since Trudeau. So to hell with that.

The bottom line is, Ford is a populist expression of a fundamentally rational urge by the masses to bring an end to government excess. And there is government excess. Certainly Ford's vision for transit is stupid. Certainly he's an ignorant fool. But just like Mike Harris in the 1995, it sometimes takes a stubborn fool to get things done. Even if some parts of that agenda is misguided.

Harris did a lot of things wrong. So did Chretien. But Canada's current strength was built ont he austerity of the 1990s. Make no mistake, if not for the "neoliberal" cutbacks of the 1990s, Canada would not be the "envy of the world" today. Our government debt ratios would look a lot like Greece's, and our government would have been facing serious damned problems.

In the end, Ford will make a lot of mistakes. He'll cut without thinking. Much of his fiscal prudence will end up being two steps forward, one step back. But Ford is merely a reflection of the coming tide against big government just like in the early 80s and just like in the mid-90s. Except this time, the US is about to implode of it's own weight, so the road ahead is bound to be turbulent.

 

[Danielinthecity]

Not silly at all

What silly, embarrassing posts. Makes me wonder why - as a VisMin - I even bother debating right-leaning & right-wing folks on message forums and blogs, when the so-called "enlightened left" seeks to burn all the ethnic immigrants at the stake due to not getting their way in a single election. And RC8, your sole anecdotal experience with one immigrant woman means jack shit. Why not just come out and admit Paul Fromm is your hero?

You're reading into this a message that was not intended...no one is burning ethnic immigrants at the stake. They're simply offering a view based on their experiences.

Whether you like it or not, everyone has a set of values and they are often categorized according to the political spectrum. And I agree that many (of course not all) immigrants that I too have met also are 'more' conservative in their views than they are liberal, whether that's pertaining to the economy or the society in general. That's been 'my' experience also.

I've been fortunate to know many people from many parts of the world (Iran, India, Pakistan, Philippines, China, Hong Kong, Poland, Lebannon, and many more), and I notice a trend in many of their views, namely a conservative one.

What I don't know is whether their views are 'class' driven or not. What I mean by that is that most of them are (or were in their homeland) pretty well off, and like one of the other posts already mentioned, I was surprised as to how little they care about others less fortunate than themselves, whether that be Canadians or those back in their homeland. I attribute that to them coming from a higher class back home. I have also noticed that many are homophobic, many are racist against many other groups...and one VERY sad and shocking thing I noticed is that almost every single ethnic group I know would die if their kids married a black person. THAT was one thing they all shared and is very sad.

I have a close Chinese friend who told me his parents can't stand Chinese from Hong Kong because he says they are all materialistic and look down on others, especially many of the poor from mainland China. I remember how shocked I was to hear this when I first moved to Toronto (many many years ago) cause my own ignorance (back then) thought all Chinese people were 'unified'...was I ever naive back then!

His parents would be angry if he didn't marry a Chinese girl, but would be even more angry if he married a Vietnamese or Filippina and even the most angriest if he married a black girl...he told me this...even though they are mad at Hong Kong people for looking down on them, they look down on others too...it's completely messed up!

And the same is for many of the other groups of friends I've known...another very close Indian friend of mine expresed to me similar views of his parents (not him...he's cool). But he also knows full well that his parents would disown him if he married someone not Indian.

These are just some of the realities out there...it doesn't mean someone is racist...did you really think that people coming from another country would 'not' bring their values with them...that somehow they'd magically leave them at the door?

Anyhow, I do think the earlier posts are hitting on something here and that it's not at all nonsense...whereas earlier waves of immigrants came from times and places more reflective of 'community' values, many immigrants today are coming from places where a strong 'class' system exists in their homeland.

And the earlier posts are simply commenting on that and how that translates into votes for ford. Remember conservatism is conservatism whether it's in the good ol usa or in Poland or in India...it's all the same elitist crap whereever it comes from.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Ford received over 1/3 or in second place in a poll in Toronto-Danforth.... 1/3rd! So to 'blame' this on suburbs is unfounded.
To receive over a third of the votes in NDP heartland, is saying something!

I'm in that neighbourhood, and it has been filling up with the new bourgeoisie and ex-suburbanites for years. Several neighbours of that ilk loved the idea of eliminating the land transfer tax, and when Miller put all his eggs in that one basket ( well, okay, the vehicle registration tax too ) rather than spreading his new tax-raising powers over a wide range of possibilities he handed any Ford-like candidate a winning platform.

Smitherman's unfocussed and mostly negative campaign, and the bolus of similar muddy centre candidates, prevented the campaign from being fought on a clear left/right Pantalone/Ford basis.