[GraphicMatt]

That's not a bubble. That's the status quo. Government is by definition a bureaucratic and complex organization. What we need are leaders who can work within the structure of government to produce tangible results. Not people who seek to blow it all up.

 

[Electrify]

It's sad that people who don't even really live in the city are now in charge of the city.

I know they say Scarboro, Etobicoke, North York etc are part of Toronto. They aren't really. Because these suburbs could be anywhere, Rochester, Austin, Cincinatti etc.

The suburbs surrounding Toronto are vast, faceless, generic. Why the city is going to be run by strangers from the suburbs is cruel.

Same could be said for places like Parkdale, Leaside, Rosedale, and Riverdale. They are not part of Toronto, they were only merged into it in the early 20th century.

Wow, people were furious when Rob used "oriental". Now somebody is talking about excluding immigrants and people with religious background from our democratic system, yet I don't see many "progressive" people protest. Why? Because the immigrants didn't vote your way. Nice.

Guess what, this is how our democratic system work. You don't like it, try to install a progressive dictator.

I don't think anyone here suggested that immigrants should be barred from voting. I am just trying to understand how such a left leaning city could elect a borderline Tea Party mayor. All the areas that voted for Ford are also places which have been represented by The Liberal Party for at least the past 10-15 years. These areas voting for Ford is like Texas voting Michael Moore for governor, or San Francisco voting Glen Beck for mayor. The Toronto Sun, AM640, and The National Post have been around for a very long time, how come now did people take their "advice" seriously?

I understand people wanted change, and if it were between Ford and Pantalone I could understand these results. But Smitherman represented change as well. In fact, if Pantalone dropped out I could see many of Smitherman's supporters going to Ford, because then Smitherman would be in the ironic position of representing the status quo. At least more so than Ford.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I don't think anyone here suggested that immigrants should be barred from voting. I am just trying to understand how such a left leaning city could elect a borderline Tea Party mayor.

What does Left and Right mean in municipal politics? If I support inflation rate increases to taxation and expenditures, does that make me right wing?

 

[archanfel]

Same could be said for places like Parkdale, Leaside, Rosedale, and Riverdale. They are not part of Toronto, they were only merged into it in the early 20th century.



I don't think anyone here suggested that immigrants should be barred from voting. I am just trying to understand how such a left leaning city could elect a borderline Tea Party mayor. All the areas that voted for Ford are also places which have been represented by The Liberal Party for at least the past 10-15 years. These areas voting for Ford is like Texas voting Michael Moore for governor, or San Francisco voting Glen Beck for mayor. The Toronto Sun, AM640, and The National Post have been around for a very long time, how come now did people take their "advice" seriously?

I understand people wanted change, and if it were between Ford and Pantalone I could understand these results. But Smitherman represented change as well. In fact, if Pantalone dropped out I could see many of Smitherman's supporters going to Ford, because then Smitherman would be in the ironic position of representing the status quo. At least more so than Ford.

The problem with Smitherman was that he had way too much baggage and those are the ones people care about. Maybe those perceptions were not fair, but they were real enough.

Municipal elections are very different from federal or provincial elections and people do make different choices. If the Conservatives believed that these areas are theirs by default now, they would be due for a shock. Believe it or not, Ford supporters are not all Toronto Sun readers. What the elitists don't understand is that people don't care about visions. Very few people care whether Toronto is number #1 in the world or the leader in green energy or the progressive capital of Canada. People want recycles cans on their lawn in two days, not two months. People want lower taxes and people get angry when unions workers make more than they do. And that's why Ford got elected. Now, whether Ford can deliver is another question.

 

[PinkLucy]

Ford is carrying baggage too ... like charges of wife assault and DUI, video evidence of a major hissy fit, being thrown out of a Leafs game while drunk and disorderly. That all seems like pretty important baggage to me in terms of his ability to lead and build an effective team at City Hall (and of his moral character).

 

[syn]

Ford is carrying baggage too ... like charges of wife assault and DUI, video evidence of a major hissy fit, being thrown out of a Leafs game while drunk and disorderly. That all seems like pretty important baggage to me in terms of his ability to lead and build an effective team at City Hall (and of his moral character).

That's personal baggage. Smitherman had a huge public funding scandal, one he never really owned up to. The fact he refused to release his donor list just before the campaign was over probably sealed his fate.

A lot of people I know who voted for Ford didn't like him that much; they simply felt he was the lesser of two evils.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The problem with the anti-government wave gripping a lot of the population is that we penalize anyone with government experience because inevitably they've made some mistakes. Better to have no experience at all.

 

[PinkLucy]

It's personal baggage but it speaks to his ability to be a team player (not) and his leadership abilities. It's important. There's also his abysmal voting record as a Councillor. And a lot of people I know who voted for Smitherman didn't like HIM that much; they simply felt he was the lesser of two evils. So there ya go.

 

[archanfel]

It's personal baggage but it speaks to his ability to be a team player (not) and his leadership abilities. It's important. There's also his abysmal voting record as a Councillor. And a lot of people I know who voted for Smitherman didn't like HIM that much; they simply felt he was the lesser of two evils. So there ya go.

As I said, Smitherman's baggage were the ones that people care about. Obviously, not enough people cared about Ford's baggage, otherwise it would be Smitherman who got elected.

If GraphicMatt was correct, in 4 years, Ford will get enough baggage to become unelectable. Who knows.

 

[GraphicMatt]

He very well could - his best strategy is to clamp down hard, don't communicate with the press and be relatively unambitious with his plans. There's an appetite that sees every election these days turn to "Throw the bums out!" which is really boring and uninspiring but so it goes.

 

[archanfel]

He very well could - his best strategy is to clamp down hard, don't communicate with the press and be relatively unambitious with his plans. There's an appetite that sees every election these days turn to "Throw the bums out!" which is really boring and uninspiring but so it goes.

I can live with boring and uninspiring. It's those who are inspiring that scare me. As I said, most people don't want visions. They want government to provide the services they need and then get out of their lives. An inspiring leader usually can do far more harm than good.

"It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of 'em was one kinda sombitch or another. " -- Firefly

 

[GraphicMatt]

I disagree - I think vision is critical. To give an example: We can save a ton of money now by stopping or slowing down Waterfront development plans or we can push forward with vision and create a space that could generate millions in new annual revenues a decade from now. Your no-vision candidate will be more likely to not spend the cash and avoid the tax increase in the near-term, but the long-term cost (in terms of lost revenue) could be significant.

 

[PinkLucy]

I agree. Without vision we'd still be rubbing two sticks together and throwing spears at wild animals. The problem I find with so many governments, at all levels, is that they lack vision. They focus on the short-term and neglect the long-term. For example, they do patch by patch repairs on a road because it's cheaper; however, in the long term, it can be cheaper to repair the entire road rather than just apply bandaid solutions for years. The most successful people and companies have a vision and know how to achieve it. The second bit is important because there are also a lot of visionaries out there who are just that -- visionaries. You need to combine vision with realistic action planning.

 

[Tewder]

I can live with boring and uninspiring. It's those who are inspiring that scare me. As I said, most people don't want visions. They want government to provide the services they need and then get out of their lives. An inspiring leader usually can do far more harm than good.

"It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of 'em was one kinda sombitch or another. " -- Firefly

I'm curious how you'd feel about a Juliani or Daley type for Toronto?

 

[Glen]

I disagree - I think vision is critical. To give an example: We can save a ton of money now by stopping or slowing down Waterfront development plans or we can push forward with vision and create a space that could generate millions in new annual revenues a decade from now. Your no-vision candidate will be more likely to not spend the cash and avoid the tax increase in the near-term, but the long-term cost (in terms of lost revenue) could be significant.

You are making the same mistake many do. You are looking at the revenues and ignoring the expenses. If the development of the Waterfront does not have a sizable portion of non-residential , the revenues generated will be dwarfed by the expenses. If it ends up being mostly residential, the city would be better served by not having it develop.