Brian69
Not the Messiah
You're quite adept at avoiding responses and throwing up smokecreens. You wouldn't happen to be a Truther as well, would you? Between the Rense link and the conspiracy focus (heard of Occam's Razor?) I'm starting to wonder.
|
|
|
- Thread starter jade_lee
- Start date
kEiThZ
Superstar
cuzzin_elias...
I am glad you posted on the pipelines...you are finally showing your ignorance on Central Asian politics. You are quickly eroding your own credibility. Let me help you along....
1) The end beneficiaries of both the TAPI and the IPI are India and Pakistan. At best, all the US could hope to accomplish are a minimal diversion of business away from Iran. And since it costs nothing to keep gas in the ground, its not like Iran is really losing money any way. So you tell me what absolute strategic gains are made by building the TAPI line?
2) Since the TAPI would have generated revenue for Afghanistan, why would we have to overthrow the Taliban to build it? The Talibs would have agreed to its construction since they could have used the revenue. Indeed, they would probably have agreed to protect the line...for a fee.
3) And if an oil/gas pipeline was the end desire, then what is your explanation for 9/11 as casus belli? Who did 9/11? And shouldn't they pay for it? Let me guess you probably think its either the jews or the CIA right?
4) Why would the Government of Canada (with bi-partisan consensus), 40 other countries, NATO and the UN (which is no friend of the US) agree and contribute to an invasion in the aftermath of 9/11 if it was for oil? The strategic guidance that the CF received, and that given to the CDS, CEFCOM, JTF-A, CANSOFCOM, CANOSCOM say nothing about a pipeline. They do say lots about reconstruction and peace support operations. Do you know something that they don't? Why don't you mail your evidence to your local MP, or the Prime Minister, or the UN Secretary General? I am sure it would be news to them that we are fighting for an oil/gas pipeline.
5) Let's take your logic further. Let's say you are right that the US wants to run some mythical pipeline through Afghanistan (its mythical since it won't happen in my lifetime)...your argument is that the US, NATO, the UN, dozens of other countries went to war in Afghanistan to help secure the rights to facilitate an Indian company (probably ONGC) building a pipeline that would service India. Apparently, 40 countries got together decide to concoct 9/11 and the US government agreed to 3000 of its own citizens and residents getting murdered all so we could help the Indians build a pipeline decades from now. Are you also suggesting that the Liberal government sanctioned the murder of two dozen Canadians on 9/11?
Your argument is that this was all somehow done for profit by western oil and gas multinationals. First of all, that would be bunk if you knew anything about the region where oil companies are nationalized and they don't allow western multi-nationals free reign. Next, if this is your argument, given that they would be making a cut (not getting the full revenue stream)....it would still be less than the hundreds of billions of dollars that will have been spent on Afghanistan by the time NATO and the US pulls out completely. Wouldn't we have been better off and wouldn't it have been easier to just give the oil companies the money? Heck, the government could have pumped in more money and done it a faster pace by handing out tax breaks....you're arguing that instead of that they went to war?
Using 9/11 truther sites and accussing your opponents of being neo-cons does not get you a pass to use irrational arguments. If that's the best reasoning you have....and the best sources you can put up are rense (a page which also includes UFO links) then you are quickly showing the world the limits of your intellectual prowess and your ability for reasoning, rational debate and comprehension. I'd take a guess at your IQ and education levels....but I think your posts point the way on these fronts.....I recommend you get off the couch in your mom's basement and hit a library....
I am glad you posted on the pipelines...you are finally showing your ignorance on Central Asian politics. You are quickly eroding your own credibility. Let me help you along....
1) The end beneficiaries of both the TAPI and the IPI are India and Pakistan. At best, all the US could hope to accomplish are a minimal diversion of business away from Iran. And since it costs nothing to keep gas in the ground, its not like Iran is really losing money any way. So you tell me what absolute strategic gains are made by building the TAPI line?
2) Since the TAPI would have generated revenue for Afghanistan, why would we have to overthrow the Taliban to build it? The Talibs would have agreed to its construction since they could have used the revenue. Indeed, they would probably have agreed to protect the line...for a fee.
3) And if an oil/gas pipeline was the end desire, then what is your explanation for 9/11 as casus belli? Who did 9/11? And shouldn't they pay for it? Let me guess you probably think its either the jews or the CIA right?
4) Why would the Government of Canada (with bi-partisan consensus), 40 other countries, NATO and the UN (which is no friend of the US) agree and contribute to an invasion in the aftermath of 9/11 if it was for oil? The strategic guidance that the CF received, and that given to the CDS, CEFCOM, JTF-A, CANSOFCOM, CANOSCOM say nothing about a pipeline. They do say lots about reconstruction and peace support operations. Do you know something that they don't? Why don't you mail your evidence to your local MP, or the Prime Minister, or the UN Secretary General? I am sure it would be news to them that we are fighting for an oil/gas pipeline.
5) Let's take your logic further. Let's say you are right that the US wants to run some mythical pipeline through Afghanistan (its mythical since it won't happen in my lifetime)...your argument is that the US, NATO, the UN, dozens of other countries went to war in Afghanistan to help secure the rights to facilitate an Indian company (probably ONGC) building a pipeline that would service India. Apparently, 40 countries got together decide to concoct 9/11 and the US government agreed to 3000 of its own citizens and residents getting murdered all so we could help the Indians build a pipeline decades from now. Are you also suggesting that the Liberal government sanctioned the murder of two dozen Canadians on 9/11?
Your argument is that this was all somehow done for profit by western oil and gas multinationals. First of all, that would be bunk if you knew anything about the region where oil companies are nationalized and they don't allow western multi-nationals free reign. Next, if this is your argument, given that they would be making a cut (not getting the full revenue stream)....it would still be less than the hundreds of billions of dollars that will have been spent on Afghanistan by the time NATO and the US pulls out completely. Wouldn't we have been better off and wouldn't it have been easier to just give the oil companies the money? Heck, the government could have pumped in more money and done it a faster pace by handing out tax breaks....you're arguing that instead of that they went to war?
Using 9/11 truther sites and accussing your opponents of being neo-cons does not get you a pass to use irrational arguments. If that's the best reasoning you have....and the best sources you can put up are rense (a page which also includes UFO links) then you are quickly showing the world the limits of your intellectual prowess and your ability for reasoning, rational debate and comprehension. I'd take a guess at your IQ and education levels....but I think your posts point the way on these fronts.....I recommend you get off the couch in your mom's basement and hit a library....
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Yes, of course; you're the only one awake.
Unfortunately the evidence to support your conscious state is lacking in this instance. Could it be a fantasy at play?
jade_lee
Active Member
Earlier this week, Defence Secretary Robert Gates said the U.S. military was so overstretched that, even with the expected drawdown in Iraq, the needs in Afghanistan couldn't be met until some time next year.
“We do not have the forces to send three additional combat brigades to Afghanistan at this point,†Mr. Gates said.
As the Taliban insurgency has ramped up, including audacious attacks in the heart of the capital Kabul, a series of successful ambushes of Canadian, French and U.S. troops and the liberation of hundreds of prisoners in Kandahar prison, the reputation of foreign forces has been severely tarnished by air strikes gone wrong that killed scores of innocents.
Civilian casualties can seriously undermine the legitimacy of fighting terrorism and the credibility of the Afghan people's partnership with the international community,†Mr. Karzai said. Hundreds of civilians have been killed this year, along with more than 200 foreign soldiers and an estimated 4,500 insurgents.
Last month, more than 90 civilians, including 60 children, were killed when U.S. warplanes bombed an extended-family gathering after flawed intelligence targeted the group as jihadists.
This is how the war is going according to Mr. Karzai. Is he not telling the truth?
“We do not have the forces to send three additional combat brigades to Afghanistan at this point,†Mr. Gates said.
As the Taliban insurgency has ramped up, including audacious attacks in the heart of the capital Kabul, a series of successful ambushes of Canadian, French and U.S. troops and the liberation of hundreds of prisoners in Kandahar prison, the reputation of foreign forces has been severely tarnished by air strikes gone wrong that killed scores of innocents.
Civilian casualties can seriously undermine the legitimacy of fighting terrorism and the credibility of the Afghan people's partnership with the international community,†Mr. Karzai said. Hundreds of civilians have been killed this year, along with more than 200 foreign soldiers and an estimated 4,500 insurgents.
Last month, more than 90 civilians, including 60 children, were killed when U.S. warplanes bombed an extended-family gathering after flawed intelligence targeted the group as jihadists.
This is how the war is going according to Mr. Karzai. Is he not telling the truth?
kEiThZ
Superstar
He's right. That's why Canada has some of the strictest Rules of Engagement in ISAF. Now ask him if he wants NATO to leave....I can guess his answer already....
jade_lee
Active Member
And I suggest you re-read what I have typed on this thread.......then go read what is happening now in Afghanistan!
kEiThZ
Superstar
Enlighten me. My opinion of the mission has not changed. As a military professional, I put my talk into action every day. What contribution have you made to Canada and the world lately?
lordmandeep
Banned
lol, Layton believes the British General call of having peace with the Taliban...
Nice to see more joining the Neville Chamberlain school of idiotic thinking.
Yes people like Layton thinks govt should control the economy but we should do nothing in the world and let the world burn. We will just sit here in North American and build out white Castles and build our walls taller and stronger.
Remember this that in the late 30's they tried to hide behind those white castles but they could not.
What makes us think, we can do the same in this more interconnected smaller world of ours today.
I am not saying the Taliban are Nazi's.
I am saying, do not believe in this idea that we should ignore the problems of the world.
Nice to see more joining the Neville Chamberlain school of idiotic thinking.
Yes people like Layton thinks govt should control the economy but we should do nothing in the world and let the world burn. We will just sit here in North American and build out white Castles and build our walls taller and stronger.
Remember this that in the late 30's they tried to hide behind those white castles but they could not.
What makes us think, we can do the same in this more interconnected smaller world of ours today.
I am not saying the Taliban are Nazi's.
I am saying, do not believe in this idea that we should ignore the problems of the world.
kEiThZ
Superstar
The general's comments were misinterpreted by the idea. It's not been different from NATO's position and the statements by our military and government leaders either. We've always said NATO needs more resources, and that the Afghan Army needs to get built up so we can leave. And we've offered to talk to the Taliban. So have the Brits. So have the Americans. All we ask is that they drop their weapons and become a legitimate political party that respects the rights of Afghans. They don't. So we'll keep at it until they get the message....
lordmandeep
Banned
Layton would likely talk with them without preconditions.
jade_lee
Active Member
Are you kidding me with that statement?????????
Do you honestly believe your services for which you are paid are superior to any other working Canadian paying taxes, raising kids and promoting a shared cultural experience? That statement reads pure arrogance and stupidity to me and I can't believe that I am even responding to you but indeed I am, just to set the record straight.
What have I done for Canada? For the World????....I am a public servant by profession and I have advocated to end this foolish American led invasion of Afghanistan in many many ways...as many as I could manage in my daily life in fact, I also have had to put up with the likes of your school of thought and it scares me tho think that you would ever have a weapon in you hands in a battle situation as your thinking is rather warped in my opinion, it does not reflect the reality on the ground in Afghanistan no matter what noise you feel compelled to type here.
And before you shoot you self in the foot, I have been a correctional officer for 20 years. So to another comment you made here on another thread.....you are the naive one. I have years of experience in the criminal justice field as a court officer, probation officer, classification officer and a correctional officer......toot toot
kEiThZ
Superstar
As a public servant, I too pay taxes, get to raise kids, etc. And as for promoting a shared cultural experience, as an immigrant who has lived on two continents and has relatives in half a dozen countries I assure you that I contribute more than my fair share to the cultural melange of Canada.
That's your opinion. Mine is shared by the 40 000 personnel who have rotated through Afghanistan. I won't stop advocating the beliefs of the multitude of men and women who risk their lives for the safety and security of others.
As to your personal attacks on my discipline, I have met a lot more personnel in the justice and correctional system who view weapons as toys, unlike a military culture which demands severe respect to the point where a single accidental discharge can result in a courts martial. Find me a police service in Canada that comes close. It takes discipline to use anything bigger than 9mm....remember that. And if your comments, non-sensical jibberish and general lack of literacy and comprehension are anything to go by, it makes me wonder for the safety of the incarcerated in this country. I certainly hope you put in more effort into manuals at work.
Good for you. The difference between your profession and mine. There's a reason we get a scroll signed by the Governor General of Canada on commissioning recognizing our rights and duties as CF members and officers. I have unlimited liability for my service to the crown. You have a union that let's you strike. I can get deployed on a whim anywhere the government of Canada feels it's a priority. You get to volunteer to change locations in Canada. And I won't even compare the education, training and IQ standards, trustworthiness (for security clearances) for military officers. Don't make me laugh with the idea that we are equals.
jade_lee
Active Member
No need to defend yourself Keithz, you're exactly what I thought you were.
Your constant personal attacks about my literacy skills etc says it all. LOL
As for weapons, I have never had to use a single one. My interpersonal skills have served me well. You go army boy!!!! But don't expect any respect from me Mr "I have personally met Mackay", what a joker!
Your constant personal attacks about my literacy skills etc says it all. LOL
As for weapons, I have never had to use a single one. My interpersonal skills have served me well. You go army boy!!!! But don't expect any respect from me Mr "I have personally met Mackay", what a joker!
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Post after post of poorly written text certainly suggests poor literacy skills. That's your fault. As for your exceptional interpersonal skills, your posts cast a negative shadow on that claim as well.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Keep your impression of me. I'm exactly the type of confident, articulate, intelligent and capable individual we need defending and serving Canada. Why don't you run a poll on UT to see who they'd trust more with their national security?
If I have said something untrue, point it out. It's hardly an attack to question your literacy skills when post after post comes across with not just bad spelling and grammar, but generally unintelligble rhetoric.
Nor have I (out of a training context), and as an Air Force person, since the weapons I use are a hell of a lot bigger, I certainly hope I don't have to. But I guarantee you that if I ever did have to, I think most of the folks on UT would rather it be me than you.
We have great Corrections Services Canada personnel embedded with us in Afghanistan. Why don't you ask them about the quality of interpersonal skills and cultural sensitivity of military personnel in the region. The Canadian Forces operations in Kandahar are regularly cited by the rest of NATO and non-NATO countries as the perfect example of how to conduct peace support, peace enforcement, reconstruction, and counter-insurgency operations in the same theatre. And I assure you a lot of that is owing to the very sharp interpersonal skills of some rather young privates and corporals.
I would never ask the respect of someone, who's respect, it is not worth having....