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Electrify said:
What about trading in the remaining high floor buses and older low floor ones towards credit for some artics? Also, how old are some of Montreal's? The Nova ones I rode on there I'd ballpark at 10 years, if not older.
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Montreal has only had artics since 2009, and have been getting them every year since.

Ottawa struck a deal to get a discount on new artics by taking the remaining buses from a cancelled Chicago order. Part of the deal included the manufacturer taking back the old Ottawa artics and reselling them. Might be something the TTC could be looking into?
 
Electrify said:
What about trading in the remaining high floor buses and older low floor ones towards credit for some artics? Also, how old are some of Montreal's? The Nova ones I rode on there I'd ballpark at 10 years, if not older.
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Why would a bus company take back old 40ft. buses for credit towards 60ft buses?The deal OC Transpo made with NFI is unique, and cannot be applied elsewhere.
 
nfitz said:
Less than 2 years old, but they look 10 years, if not older?

Sounds promising ...
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Maybe I've just been spoiled by the Vivas, which are approaching 6 years and still going strong. The artics in Montreal are basic models and not BRT ones, and it appears that Montreal decided to skip on the A/C which also may have influenced my opinion that they are older than they actually are.
 
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Electrify said:
I assume you've never heard of trading in a used car towards credit for a new one?
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And the market for used transit buses is how big exactly?

The way the ex-Ottawa buses bought back by New Flyer are flying off of the proverbial shelves makes me think that the market might be as big as 100 buses per year. For the continent. Maybe.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
And the market for used transit buses is how big exactly?

The way the ex-Ottawa buses bought back by New Flyer are flying off of the proverbial shelves makes me think that the market might be as big as 100 buses per year. For the continent. Maybe.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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They're probably selling them to third world countries, similar to how Toronto is selling their old subways to some country in Africa.
 
Electrify said:
I assume you've never heard of trading in a used car towards credit for a new one?
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Because you can trade a old car for a fraction of it's original value, you think it can be applied to buses. There isn't much of a market for used buses in North America. I have seen buses converted to tourbuses, and luxury "limos", and the occasional bus sold to a small agency, but agencies probably get more value if they sell the buses to scrap yards.
 
gweed123 said:
I think the real question here is how much better or worse is the lifespan and/or maintenance costs over that lifespan of artics vs regular buses?
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Maintenance is only one part of the equation. Yes, they may cost more upfront, have higher maintenance costs, and may not last as long.

However, let's say we replace all the buses operating on an ultra high frequency route with artics. Instead of a bus coming every 3 minutes, which ultimately leads to bunching at such frequencies, you could reduce the number of buses running so that one comes every 5 minutes. This not only leads to more predictable headways, but relatively fewer buses means less drivers you have to pay, less buses you have to maintain and fuel up, and each bus generates more revenue. You also don't have to invest in expensive rail infrastructure until it is necessary.

Considering these factors with the high volumes some bus routes deal with, I think artics are a good investment for at least the medium term, if not longer.
 
gweed123 said:
I think the real question here is how much better or worse is the lifespan and/or maintenance costs over that lifespan of artics vs regular buses?
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Lifespan seems to be variable. Mississauga gets rid of theirs after 12 years, and although some of the TTC's Orion IIIs lasted 16 years most were retired well before that.

As for maintenance costs, the only direct comparison that I have seen referenced was one by the TTC over 10 years ago. They found that the GM artics had maintenance costs over three times higher than an average 40 foot bus, and that the maintenance costs to keep the Orion IIIs were only slightly lower.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Justin10000 said:
Because you can trade a old car for a fraction of it's original value, you think it can be applied to buses. There isn't much of a market for used buses in North America. I have seen buses converted to tourbuses, and luxury "limos", and the occasional bus sold to a small agency, but agencies probably get more value if they sell the buses to scrap yards.
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Do you work in transit management? You pass yourself as quite authoritative with incredibly unsophisticated opinions.

You do know that transit agencies don't buy buses like you buy a car right? They take lifecycle costs into account. The market may not be huge for transit agencies, but I'm willing to bet that NFI certainly thought they could refurbish and sell those buses or they wouldn't have taken them in.

And do you have any evidence for your assertion that they would have been worth more as scrap?
 
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