[simuls]

I'm a western Canadian who moved here ten years ago and I can absolutely, positively say that in no way, shape or form do I find Torontonians cold, mean, aggressive OR arrogant. In contrast I would feel very comfortable saying that about Vancouver - and yes, I'm generalizing as there are lots of variations within a given population. I have lived in the beaches, upper beaches, riverdale, annex, King west, liberty village, entertainment district, cabbagetown, little portugal, greektown and high park. The people everywhere are genuine, always ready with a suggestion or helpful information - if asked, and gracious. They have nothing but great things to say about most other parts of Canada - especially Vancouver (me being the exception. While living in Vancouver, the knives couldn't come out fast enough to start carving up other cities (especially Toronto), and for them to brag about their own. This coming from a city with the biggest drug and homeless problem in Canada, a complete lack of the arts (and sorry a couple dinky theatre companies, a lame dance company, and buskers don't count), massively overpriced RE and groceries, and completely disconnected from the rest of the continent. It's laughable. They have the mindset of small town Canada combined with an oversized ego and a napoleonic complex.

However - to bring this back on topic. I will say that this is a clever marketing campaign that probably achieved exactly what it wanted to - that's why they pulled it after only 10 complaints - it was planned all along! If Toronto was smarter, they would've ignored the entire thing.

 

[MisterF]

Having lived all over Ontario I've found that when it comes to friendliness, people are the same everywhere. Same with out west...although if you're from Ontairo you'll likely find people insulting your home a lot. As for customer service, we're probably right in the middle, some countries are better, others worse. Waiters in the Czech Republic are total snobs.

That's true. Government make poor corporations. If it wasn't for people supporting through taxes, it would be bankrupt ages ago. I'm still rolling my eyes over the 103 billion dollars spent on the 407 instead of on public transit. And having it sold for 1 billion to be paid off in 99 years.

While I agree that the money paid for the 407 was ridiculous (we could build high speed rail from here to California for that money), I don't get your point about governments making poor corporations. A big part of the government's job is to do things that corporations can't afford to do or can't make a profit doing. So by its very nature government must be supported by taxes.

 

[AKS]

While I agree that the money paid for the 407 was ridiculous (we could build high speed rail from here to California for that money), I don't get your point about governments making poor corporations. A big part of the government's job is to do things that corporations can't afford to do or can't make a profit doing. So by its very nature government must be supported by taxes.

Usually corporations earn money. But governments do things that lose money. 407 is just one example. There's also the sky dome they sold for a loss. Then they tried to stick their nose into the food cart business (less of a loss than other projects), and they joked about selling the CN Tower (I wonder if there were half truths to this). That's just to name a few.

 

[Eug]

Argggh. Don't get me started on the food cart thing.

Perhaps that should be the biggest criticism about Toronto (ignoring the lagging public transit for the time being), the intense bureaucracy. Then again intense bureacracy seems to be a huge problem with large North American cities in general.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Toronto is cordial, yet still frigid. It's predictably cordial and frigid, though, which is good sometimes. Other places are often friendlier but also ruder at the same time (well, at various times)...other places are often just generally more aggressive with their emotions and interactions, for better or worse.

That's true. Government make poor corporations. If it wasn't for people supporting through taxes, it would be bankrupt ages ago. I'm still rolling my eyes over the 103 billion dollars spent on the 407 instead of on public transit. And having it sold for 1 billion to be paid off in 99 years.

They obviously did not spend $103 billion on the 407. They did not buy farms in Markham decades ago at a billion dollars each, otherwise Toronto would be home to dozens of billionaires and the 905 would be the richest place in the world. This isn't Tokyo.

 

[ellett44]

While living in Vancouver, the knives couldn't come out fast enough to start carving up other cities (especially Toronto), and for them to brag about their own. This coming from a city with the biggest drug and homeless problem in Canada, a complete lack of the arts (and sorry a couple dinky theatre companies, a lame dance company, and buskers don't count), massively overpriced RE and groceries, and completely disconnected from the rest of the continent. It's laughable. They have the mindset of small town Canada combined with an oversized ego and a napoleonic complex.

This exact sentiment has been echoed time and time again on these boards (one that I can personally attest to after spending some time out West). I know whenever we speak about inhabitants of other cities, the 'I don't want to make any generalizations' warning comes up...but I really wonder if this is an inherent quality of most Vancouverites. Could it be something in the education there?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

They obviously did not spend $103 billion on the 407. They did not buy farms in Markham decades ago at a billion dollars each, otherwise Toronto would be home to dozens of billionaires and the 905 would be the richest place in the world. This isn't Tokyo.

i know. it was at least 104 billion.


from wikipedia:

Ontario Government Hansard - Wednesday 21 October 1998 - 1520, 1550. Estimates range from $104-107 billion total taxpayer investment as of 31 March 1998

is there any chance that the record could have a mistake?

 

[afransen]

The record might be accurate, but the politician uttering the words may have been mistaken.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Perhaps it was $10.3B, if the final bits of land were assembled in the 80s, but even that seems too high.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

The record might be accurate, but the politician uttering the words may have been mistaken.

so it's not a record of facts, it's a record of discourse, a text version of a conversation.

is there real evidence (facts) on what it cost to acquire all the property, build & finish the thing?

 

[lordmandeep]

103 billion seems extreme...

That is like the annual GDP of like a dozen islands in the Caribbean or the Pacific.

 

[AKS]

The highway opened in 1997, and highway cost roughly $1.6 billion. The published $1.6 billion cost does not take into account more than $100 billion spent since the early 1970s acquiring the land that it sits on.

Taken from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_407_(Ontario)

 

[salvius]

^ Those numbers for land acquirement are highly suspect. The citation given is the Hansard, so that's no good.

 

[GenerationW]

$100 million perhaps?

 

[tayser]

The regional carping that goes on in this country is truly an embarrassment.

I reckon it's hilarious

it's worse in Australia!