[Deadpool X]

This highway not only facilitates future traffic management but also current traffic. If someone's destination is on 404 and they are driving on 400, there will either drive through 401 which is already congested or use local streets, congesting them as well. 407 is too expensive for a lot of people. If someone is driving down from Barrie and want to visit Markham, driving all the way down to 401 and then going back up north on 404 is wasteful. It adds more traffic in the city, adds to congestion and pollution.

I would say it's even more valuable than 413 which won't save as much distance and is much longer and expensive.

 

[ShonTron]

I occasionally drive to visit family in Sudbury, and I’ll admit the Bradford Bypass will be useful to me. I already prefer taking the DVP 404 to Newmarket and cutting across to the 400 that way and avoiding the 401.

That’s not an endorsement of the project; I’d rather it not be built.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It’ll definitely be the fastest way downtown from Simcoe County and northwards.

 

[lenaitch]

I occasionally drive to visit family in Sudbury, and I’ll admit the Bradford Bypass will be useful to me. I already prefer taking the DVP 404 to Newmarket and cutting across to the 400 that way and avoiding the 401.

That’s not an endorsement of the project; I’d rather it not be built.

As did we when we travelled between Simcoe County and Scarborough/Sunnybrook Vets Centre. We usually cut across Stouffville/King Roads

I suppose a case could be made for the bypass being a beneficial route for 'someone going from A to B', but the test needs to be sufficient traffic patterns to justify it; a whole bunch of people travelling from Barrie to Markham.

 

[nfitz]

This highway not only facilitates future traffic management but also current traffic. If someone's destination is on 404 and they are driving on 400, there will either drive through 401 which is already congested or use local streets, congesting them as well. 407 is too expensive for a lot of people.

Though it will depend on how much the toll on the bypass will be.

Looks like the peak toll for 407 from 400 to 404 is about $10. Using 401 would about 15 km to the trip (and would seldom be faster than cutting across 9, or one of the other east-west roads).

The (2023) mileage rate is 62¢/km; on that basis driving down to 401 is going to cost another $9!

Sure, there's always a discussion on the perceived cost of marginal cost versus average cost, but I struggle to understand how there's really that many cases of people who can afford to live in the GTA and own a car, to have the deciding factor to head down to 401 being $5 or so. If that were so critical, people wouldn't be lining up at Starbucks or Tim Hortons.

 

[Northern Light]

Though it will depend on how much the toll on the bypass will be.

Looks like the peak toll for 407 from 400 to 404 is about $10. Using 401 would about 15 km to the trip (and would seldom be faster than cutting across 9, or one of the other east-west roads).

The (2023) mileage rate is 62¢/km; on that basis driving down to 401 is going to cost another $9!

Sure, there's always a discussion on the perceived cost of marginal cost versus average cost, but I struggle to understand how there's really that many cases of people who can afford to live in the GTA and own a car, to have the deciding factor to head down to 401 being $5 or so. If that were so critical, people wouldn't be lining up at Starbucks or Tim Hortons.

The Ford government has said the Bypass will be toll-free.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Though it will depend on how much the toll on the bypass will be.

Looks like the peak toll for 407 from 400 to 404 is about $10. Using 401 would about 15 km to the trip (and would seldom be faster than cutting across 9, or one of the other east-west roads).

The (2023) mileage rate is 62¢/km; on that basis driving down to 401 is going to cost another $9!

Sure, there's always a discussion on the perceived cost of marginal cost versus average cost, but I struggle to understand how there's really that many cases of people who can afford to live in the GTA and own a car, to have the deciding factor to head down to 401 being $5 or so. If that were so critical, people wouldn't be lining up at Starbucks or Tim Hortons.

if it's daily commuting, both ways, people absolutely will avoid it.

Regardless, as already said, it won't be tolled.

 

[nfitz]

Regardless, as already said, it won't be tolled.

That's what they said, even after 407 construction had begun. Things changed after the government changed.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That's what they said, even after 407 construction had begun. Things changed after the government changed.

Possibly indeed, but I don’t see that being a popular move. At the very least, it shouldn’t be assumed as so.

The 407 was also always planned to be a toll road from what I remember, at least since it got construction funding. What changed was who collected the tolls.

 

[nfitz]

Possibly indeed, but I don’t see that being a popular move. At the very least, it shouldn’t be assumed as so.

The 407 was also always planned to be a toll road from what I remember, at least since it got construction funding. What changed was who collected the tolls.

I have no recollection of hearing of it being a toll road when it was planned in the late 1950s. I don't even remember it being a toll road when construction started in the 1980s.

I thought tolling came about during the early 1990s recession - when they contracted for a 35-year tolling period before tolls ended. And then got a lot more expensive and for a longer time-period when they significantly accelerated construction and changed it from being tolled, to being a 99-year lease to a private company (with tolling).

 

[wopchop]

That is exactly right. When Peterson announced the highway in the late 1980s, there was no plan to toll it. Tolling the 407 and the private partnership was only proposed and pursued during the early 1990s because of the recession and the revenue shortfalls. Then when Rae was Premier, they decided the 403 route through Halton would become part of the tolled 407.

 

[ARG1]

That is exactly right. When Peterson announced the highway in the late 1980s, there was no plan to toll it. Tolling the 407 and the private partnership was only proposed and pursued during the early 1990s because of the recession and the revenue shortfalls. Then when Rae was Premier, they decided the 403 route through Halton would become part of the tolled 407.

Thx NDP

 

[wopchop]

Thx NDP

Well, that's not even half as bad as Harris' deal to lease it off for 99-years.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Well, that's not even half as bad as Harris' deal to lease it off for 99-years.

yup - we would have had just 10 more years of tolls until the original 35 year term was up otherwise.

Ultimately I think it's for the best the 407 is remaining as a toll road over the long term, I definitely appreciate being able to use the highway for recreational trips 15-20 times a year, but would hate to have to pay for it for a daily commute. Ideally that money would have gone to government coffers though.

 

[wopchop]

yup - we would have had just 10 more years of tolls until the original 35 year term was up otherwise.

Ultimately I think it's for the best the 407 is remaining as a toll road over the long term, I definitely appreciate being able to use the highway for recreational trips 15-20 times a year, but would hate to have to pay for it for a daily commute. Ideally that money would have gone to government coffers though.

I think the Highway being the toll road was the right choice. The sale was just criminal though.