airplane-dude
Active Member
Indeed.. Woodbine was so dead the last time I was there, it was strange.. And the Bay 'Outlet' looked like the Salvation Army warehouse.
The EMTC just needs a nice makeover.. which is rumoured to be starting next year.
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- Thread starter lordmandeep
- Start date
Indeed.. Woodbine was so dead the last time I was there, it was strange.. And the Bay 'Outlet' looked like the Salvation Army warehouse.
The EMTC just needs a nice makeover.. which is rumoured to be starting next year.
Dan416
Senior Member
Really? Where'd you hear that?
Justin10000
Banned
Erin Mills had a great mini-putt course in the lower centre of the mall. Sad that the owners took it out.
Kingsway
Active Member
EMTC is for sale so I would think that any reno plans are probably on hold.
The other element to the mall hierarchy depends on ownership. CF and Oxford malls survive because they can leverage tenants into the C Malls in order for them to take space in the A Malls. If Cadillac ever dumps the likes of Hillcrest or Promenade, it will hit the skids.
RioCan, Fishman, Bentall and so on don't have the leverage to keep the A tenants into their assets because they can't trade.
Very few malls go from B to A, lots go from B to C.
The other element to the mall hierarchy depends on ownership. CF and Oxford malls survive because they can leverage tenants into the C Malls in order for them to take space in the A Malls. If Cadillac ever dumps the likes of Hillcrest or Promenade, it will hit the skids.
RioCan, Fishman, Bentall and so on don't have the leverage to keep the A tenants into their assets because they can't trade.
Very few malls go from B to A, lots go from B to C.
Dan416
Senior Member
I had no idea CF was selling EMTC....
Who even has that kind of money? Oxford? Morguard?
airplane-dude
Active Member
Where did you hear that EMTC is up for sale?
The friend of a friend knows someone at Cadilac.. and they were talking about doing the planning work on a reno.. didn't mention anything about a timeline, but I can't imagine it being too far away from next year..
The friend of a friend knows someone at Cadilac.. and they were talking about doing the planning work on a reno.. didn't mention anything about a timeline, but I can't imagine it being too far away from next year..
Kingsway
Active Member
I heard from someone looking at buying it. It may be the Erin Mills Development portion, CF is 50/50.
A lot of major malls have changed hands lately. Oxford took Upper Canada, Primaris took Cataraqui, etc.
In terms of who has that kind of money to buy a mall, Oxford, Redcliff, Morgaurd, etc would manage on behalf of a pension fund, insurance co, etc.
A lot of major malls have changed hands lately. Oxford took Upper Canada, Primaris took Cataraqui, etc.
In terms of who has that kind of money to buy a mall, Oxford, Redcliff, Morgaurd, etc would manage on behalf of a pension fund, insurance co, etc.
airplane-dude
Active Member
You must have some rich friends
You could be right about the Erin Mills Development part.. I'm not even sure what they're up to these days, as the Erin Mills area is 98% built up now..
Down in Guelph, the Stone Road Mall is half owned by Oxford, and half owned by Primaris..
Kingsway
Active Member
It wasn't a friend looking at it, it was a friend looking at it on behalf of a fund he manages.
Oxford and Primaris have a relationship. Primaris spun off from Oxford about a year ago and took a bunch of the B malls with them. Oxford kept all the As.
Oxford and Primaris have a relationship. Primaris spun off from Oxford about a year ago and took a bunch of the B malls with them. Oxford kept all the As.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Your right on the concept of leverage. If you ever want to know what new retailers are thinking of coming to Canada speak to an executive (or someone in the leasing group) of CF...they, rightly, believe that "every retailer comes through them" because of the power that owning Yorkdale and the Eaton Centre gives.
I will dispute that the issue with RioCan is leverage. As the largest retail owner in Canada (in terms of square footage) they have plenty of leverage. It is just that their focus has been on a totally different, "non-mall", strategy so their leverage is with a different kind of retailer.
Kingsway
Active Member
RioCan has zero leverage on their mall assets.
Oxford owns Yorkdale by the way...
Oxford owns Yorkdale by the way...
TOareaFan
Superstar
I am interested to understand why Rio Can has zero leverage? I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the largest retail landlord in the country would have some leverage....what is the theory.
My mistake on Yorkdale....thx
Kingsway
Active Member
In theory, CF, IC and Oxford hold the crown jewels across Canada (Yorkdale, TEC, Pacific Centre, Chinook, etc). If you are retailer X and you want into one of those, you also have to take spaces in Oakville Place, Promenade, etc (within reason). RioCan owns Shoppers World, Timmins Square, Albion Mall, etc...not many of the sexy retailers are dying to get into those. They can exhibit leverage in other ways, however, not in tenant mix.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I guess....but RioCan's core business in the unenclosed mall ("big box") sector so while I agree that their leverage over tenants is not because they own Shoppers World.....they may have some leverage in that other retail area...in fact you could argue that what they are doing with their enclosed malls is bringing their outdoor tenants indoors.
airplane-dude
Active Member
Yes, I believe Trinity Common (410 at Bovaird) is owned by RioCan, which is 100 times better than Shoppers World..