Best direction for the Green line at this point?

  • Go ahead with the current option of Eau Claire to Lynbrook and phase in extensions.

    Votes: 40 60.6%
  • Re-design the whole system

    Votes: 21 31.8%
  • Cancel it altogether

    Votes: 5 7.6%

  • Total voters
    66
Finally some more information on the AECOM work

"For now, the province is paying $2.5 million to a private consultant to develop a new LRT alignment. That report is expected in December."
Very high level with outline routes. Expect issues with getting accurate geotechnical information (a big problem with the recent Contractor) and cost: far too soon to be specific, even high level. C$ 2.5M equates to some 10,000 - 15,000 manhours!
 
Crickets from my MLA Matt Jones. Very telling that the guy covering the ward most affected by the Greenline cancellation has nothing to say when I responded with questions to the generic e-mail promising a new design some time in the future.

I stand corrected lol! Does Matt Jones visit this site? He called me around lunch time and I made all of my points. I said the province should use as much of the previous legwork for the SE as it could and that 7th ave wouldn’t work. I said if nothing else they should at least go EV to Seton which he said was fair. Hopefully he takes his constituents’ feedback to the Premier.
 

I was really curious about more details behind the 2015 GL Funding Staging and Delivery report (that has been quoted a few times recently I think), so I've been listening to the meeting where it was presented. There is a [mostly] smoking gun on what the city thought the 4.5B would buy

Chris Jordan from city admin in the Dec 11 2015 SPC on Transpo and Transit meeting in his opening presentation:
“We have estimated the capital costs at this point is between $4.5B-$5B for the segment between North Pointe and Seton…of course this is dependent on alignment through downtown which is unknown at this point.”

exactly 3 hours in:
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....aspx?Id=e5a65b64-568c-402a-9083-c2d307724498
 
^ If they had clearly said, $4.0 billion, 2014 dollars, PLUS the tunnel, they would have been right on the money IMO.

A few words would have changed the discussion entirely.
He goes on to say later that the SE is a class 3 estimate; North is a class 5 (and I believe the core had gotten lumped in with the north earlier in the process)

The uncertainties weren't really hidden or obfuscated...it just seems like nobody wanted to focus on them

Another important point here is that fed funding was always contingent on matching dollars from the city/prov (city had figured it out over 30 years, no firm commitment from prov but they were talking). I wonder if there was concern that doing just the SE (even though that would require the core) wouldn't be expensive enough to secure the 1.5B x 3. But I haven't heard them delve into the staging strategy yet
 
On the political side, Calgary confederation was a liberal target seat (the centre north), and having it go through liberal target seats, was very important to the CPC.
 
I was really curious about more details behind the 2015 GL Funding Staging and Delivery report (that has been quoted a few times recently I think), so I've been listening to the meeting where it was presented. There is a [mostly] smoking gun on what the city thought the 4.5B would buy

Chris Jordan from city admin in the Dec 11 2015 SPC on Transpo and Transit meeting in his opening presentation:


exactly 3 hours in:
https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....aspx?Id=e5a65b64-568c-402a-9083-c2d307724498
An estimate is only valid and reliable for a limited period of time (say 3 to 6 months, if that), why? Qualifications attached to it e.g. escalation prediction; design presumptions e.g. type of rail track and fastenings, method to construct tunnels; contract e.g. risk and reward and whether split between design and implement, EPCM (Silver book), NEC etc.; staff envisaged; extent of City's value engineering requirements; availability of geotechnical information at 'green areas' and restrictions applied to its ownership and use; national or international builder - ability to select a competent national or local Contractor; design capabilities - remember they are only as good as the information provided to them; competency and capability of Green Line company management board; Flyvberg's principles for undertaking a megaproject should be understood by principal parties and stakeholders etc. etc. etc. Politicians are a menace and believe that for the money spent that they will get what they want yet do they know: the cost of financing and releasing funds in staggered stages; the availability of funders; basics and fundamentals of construction; the envisaged Contract etc. etc. etc? Don't get too optimistic about the 2015 GL FSD report: it is like forecasting US $ v C $ v Euro at moments in time.
From the above: why were the 2 separate design stages of 30% and 60% accelerated to be submitted simultaneously on January 2, 2024 when the City's value engineering works was not complete? That smacks of gross incompetence from the Client's side and shows a lack of understanding under para 1 above!
When para 2 was proposed did anyone look back to the 2015 GL FSD report to compare and contrast values? I doubt it.
Now the torch is with AECOM: their list of qualifications and assumptions should make everyone sit up and take notice!
 
their list of qualifications and assumptions should make everyone sit up and take notice!
Lol their work is an acute percentage point of the project's costs. Yeah they're fine at what they do but I can tell you no one is sitting up and taking notice. They're bit player in the Green Line snow ball. They'll get their $2.5M for essentially giving us an updated version of this.
1727215229780.png
 
It is AECOM, a very well-known, world-wide established EPC, EPCM, design and build, NEC designer: a very good company to work for and with. AECON is the construction wing. You will get at least 3 to 6 designs for an at-grade solution. 3 will be throw-aways i.e. not feasible, whereas, the remainder will have pros and cons for discussion.
Alberta sounds progressive with its approach, whereas, Calgary think they are but caught punching well above their weight: a common problem when amateurs manage megaprojects.
God Noooo!
At grade is NOT a solution.
 
It is AECOM, a very well-known, world-wide established EPC, EPCM, design and build, NEC designer: a very good company to work for and with.
July's announcement by the City is a huge concern for Calgary AECOM is a welcome breath of fresh air.
Now the torch is with AECOM: their list of qualifications and assumptions should make everyone sit up and take notice!
Any other AECOM fans in the house? I can’t say I’ve ever seen someone quite so excited about a specific engineering consultant conglomerate before.

I’m sure they do fine work, just don’t get the love affair. The whole process stinks and is politically driven, any companies attached to that get the stink and suspicion of stink too.

Why should it matter that it’s these guys specifically rather than any other generic acronym consultants to repackage other consultant reports to sell back to the province what they want to hear? Why the love affair?
 
Any other AECOM fans in the house? I can’t say I’ve ever seen someone quite so excited about a specific engineering consultant conglomerate before.

I’m sure they do fine work, just don’t get the love affair. The whole process stinks and is politically driven, any companies attached to that get the stink and suspicion of stink too.

Why should it matter that it’s these guys specifically rather than any other generic acronym consultants to repackage other consultant reports to sell back to the province what they want to hear? Why the love affair?
A love affair? He he he!
 
Any other AECOM fans in the house? I can’t say I’ve ever seen someone quite so excited about a specific engineering consultant conglomerate before.

I’m sure they do fine work, just don’t get the love affair. The whole process stinks and is politically driven, any companies attached to that get the stink and suspicion of stink too.

Why should it matter that it’s these guys specifically rather than any other generic acronym consultants to repackage other consultant reports to sell back to the province what they want to hear? Why the love affair?
Well, to be fair, we often geek out and fawn over architecture firms. We would lose our minds if we found out Foster and Partners were gong to do a supertall in Calgary for instance. Maybe others who are more dialed in and enthusiastic about infrastructure feel the same way about some engineering firms.
 

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