[outoftheice]

Sounds like some of the downtown stakeholders are getting a bit worried the UCP will hand them a Green Line plan that resembles something they've already tried to stop back when they had a seat at the engagement table and pushed for tunnels. Also the costing math Smith references reminds me of the type of math that was used back in 2015 when they said the entire line could be built for $4.6 billion. Are we going to end up with another poorly costed plan and a failed procurement?

Downtown stakeholders 'want to be in the room' for Green Line realignment talks

A study into an alternate Green Line alignment for downtown Calgary has led some organizations to hope they will be heard at planning talks.

calgaryherald.com

 

[Mountain Man]

Sounds like the Province have absolutely no idea what they are doing...

 

[O-tac]

Danielle Smith knows better than everyone. She was a talkshow host so she has more expertise than the experts. She’s always the smartest person in the room.

Dunning fucking Kruger effect.

 

[GoVertical]

Old mustard seed coming down..

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Sounds like some of the downtown stakeholders are getting a bit worried the UCP will hand them a Green Line plan that resembles something they've already tried to stop back when they had a seat at the engagement table and pushed for tunnels. Also the costing math Smith references reminds me of the type of math that was used back in 2015 when they said the entire line could be built for $4.6 billion. Are we going to end up with another poorly costed plan and a failed procurement?

Downtown stakeholders 'want to be in the room' for Green Line realignment talks

A study into an alternate Green Line alignment for downtown Calgary has led some organizations to hope they will be heard at planning talks.

calgaryherald.com

I recall the downtown stakeholder being the ones really pushing for tunnels. Personally, I just don't see elevated affecting property values all that much but they're definitely worried about it. Couldn't you integrate your building into an elevated line via +15 and have that increase your property value? Should they provide input into the best way to go through downtown, sure. I mean, what would they say that hasn't already been said? Any of the streets that would work are not retail streets like Stephen Ave.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Old mustard seed coming down..View attachment 604557

This being for the Green Line is a bit misleading. The city owns this land now because it is where the station entry was supposed to be but I don't this being used for the Green Line other than a staging area for however it gets beyond 4th Street. I'm sure they want to take the building down so it doesn't become a public safety issue since it is vacant.

 

[lemongrab]

I recall the downtown stakeholder being the ones really pushing for tunnels. Personally, I just don't see elevated affecting property values all that much but they're definitely worried about it. Couldn't you integrate your building into an elevated line via +15 and have that increase your property value? Should they provide input into the best way to go through downtown, sure. I mean, what would they say that hasn't already been said? Any of the streets that would work are not retail streets like Stephen Ave.

It's really just 3-4 buildings that could do this: Core/TD Square, Scotia Centre Mall, Intact Building, and Bow Parkade. Not sure any of them would really mind beyond the construction distruption?

But I count about 10 high rises and another dozen or so mid rises...maybe they are the NIMBYs NIMFFLOS?

“The province is doing good work, and I think the municipality is doing good work, and we just want to be there at the table with their specialist as they determine, ‘hey, we want to look at this street’,” Garner said.

This suggests CDA wants something other than 2nd...but I wonder how much input they've sought from tenants/owners on other option(s)?

Data from the trio of organizations needs to be looked at as part of the conversation, Garner said. This includes “employment clusters” moving between different buildings, of which Garner gave an example:

“(Say) there’s a large tenant that’s moving up to the Petro-Canada building, we know that stuff and we can bring that to the table.”

He says they also know what’s currently being developed in downtown, what their plans are, and what tenants they’re trying to “recruit” downtown.

“You’d hate to recruit a large tenant to downtown and then all of a sudden find out, oh, the Green Line’s going there . . . It’s going to be under construction for three years,” said Garner.

Those things can help facilitate and ultimately build a great design he said, noting some of their expertise could help determine which areas might be better suited for elevated track or at-grade.

And I suspect he's just making an off the cuff example, but mildly interesting that he uses the old name (instead of Suncor Energy Centre)...branding folks can be pretty picky on that stuff. But also interesting Suncor is between Centre and 1st...so not on the present alignment? Or maybe AECOM is looking at 1st St SW...

 

[trtcttc]

I recall the downtown stakeholder being the ones really pushing for tunnels. Personally, I just don't see elevated affecting property values all that much but they're definitely worried about it. Couldn't you integrate your building into an elevated line via +15 and have that increase your property value? Should they provide input into the best way to go through downtown, sure. I mean, what would they say that hasn't already been said? Any of the streets that would work are not retail streets like Stephen Ave.

It's a public project, there's no harm for them in advocating for the best, albeit expensive solution. Street running likely affects retail, 7th ave is basically a transit corridor only.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Sounds like the Province have absolutely no idea what they are doing...

I have never been less shocked.

 

[FCC1982]

Concerning that “at grade” is still being considered.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Concerning that “at grade” is still being considered.

So many issues with this, if you weigh the choices I do not see at grade winning out unless they do just want to build the cheapest option.

What would it look like: Between 9th and 7th Avenues on almost any street you could fit a station and not cut off any road but you would break up your pedestrian street with a station. I struggle to think of a design that could make that work. Getting through 7th Avenue could be done at grade but the logistics of operating intersecting lines are significant. There's no putting a station through 6th, 5th or 4th Avenues but north of 4th Avenue you could fit a station and not cut off any through road.

Could it be done, sure. IMO it shouldn't even be considered but I'm sure it is. Maybe the savings gets them to Seton or... North of the Bow River!

 

[HudsonA08]

Also, how many people do they want to die on at grade crossings. I would think that alone would be worth not going at grade.

 

[lemongrab]

I could see an option using 6th Ave that gives several options for where you're at-grade or underground - most importantly it would be shallow cut+cover through areas that won't suffer much from the disruption:

WB transfer would still go to 1st St SW station (missing on this map). Could do a station at 8 Ave (or leave it for an infill). Grade options:

1. Underground the whole way = 1500 meters; 1-2 stations

2. Come to surface north of 9 Ave (~300m UG), 8th Ave station at-grade then interline for 1 block before turning west on 6th and going UG again at Bow Valley College (~500m at-grade), UG until north of 4th ave with a station at the Bow (~700m UG)

3. Come to surface north of 9 Ave (~300m UG), stay at grade across Macleods for surface station at Bow, then go under 5th and 4th

4. Come to surface north of 9 Ave (~300m UG), stay at grade the rest of the way


I could see arguments for any of the above. I really don't think at-grade crossings with 1-way streets are that bad. Main disruption is sequential signal timing, but who gives a shit? So then you gotta weigh the brief interline with Blue Line east; it wouldn't be hard to schedule in the near term, but could be a problem down the road, but it wouldn't be impossible to do an underpass if necessary.

The Big Head Plaza would actually be more awesome with less vehicle traffic and the occasional train...that actually gives me world-class city vibes moreso than a low ridership subway.

No beltline, no Eau Claire, no PIP impact, no bridge over the Bow River. Shortens the route through DT by about 600 meters overall

 

[darwink]

I could see an option using 6th Ave that gives several options for where you're at-grade or underground

Can’t be underground on that route-the Bow parkade goes under the full width of 6th.

 

[HudsonA08]

There will be ZERO underground anything in the green line I am afraid. The UCP would not allow it to look any worse than it already does by admitting it may have been wrong, and we need some underground. Even though I know cut and cover is very different than tunneling. I am sure the mandate given to AECOM is to not even consider anything that goes 'underground'.