Stop saying all this impressive stuff Ry. It's only going to make me sad when we don't get it.

I actually made comments about integrating retail in with the stations on the feedback site that the city currently has up for Crescent Heights/Tuxedo. You should give your two cents if you haven't already. Having a contributor with as well thought out ideas as yours would only help the process.
 
Looks like the Green Line's Beltline options are shortlisted.

http://www.calgary.ca/_layouts/coci...-river-crossing-options.pdf&noredirect=1&sf=1

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Well that settles it, it's gotta be the 10th avenue tunnel/surface option. I'm 100% against adding a surface crossing at MacLeod.

Nice find surreal.

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Is there even enough room to sink the green line between where the existing 201 tunnel is and MacLeod?

It might almost make more sense to cut and cover MacLeod. Over 2nd st SE, under 1st St SE? Maybe elevated to subway? How much ROW can we take from CPR? Maybe MacLeod (1st and 2nd St SE) becomes 2-way? I don't know...
 
Is there even enough room to sink the green line between where the existing 201 tunnel is and MacLeod?

It might almost make more sense to cut and cover MacLeod. Over 2nd st SE, under 1st St SE? Maybe elevated to subway? How much ROW can we take from CPR? Maybe MacLeod (1st and 2nd St SE) becomes 2-way? I don't know...

I thought of that too. If diagram represents the actual proposed course of the line, it looks like it pops up almost immediately after crossing paths. I wonder if there's enough room for it to go above the 201 line. It's either that or they're going to cross paths underground.

It's too bad none of the elevated options for crossing MacLeod are being considered.
 
It shouldn't be too much to ask :) I would think that good planning is what's it's mostly about rather than cost. One of the underground stations in downtown Sydney was well done. I remember several entrances coming off the street into buildings as if entering into a mall. A large wide open entrance that had shops on the street, and shops on the inside of the entrance. You walked in and eventually you realized you were in a subway station, but it didn't seem obvious at first.

Many European and a few American stations do it well too. All I'm looking for is a seamless integration with built form, retail, and pedestrian corridors in all 4 compass directions in 3 dimensions. Too much to ask?

Here's a quick link to give you an idea of what metro stations are like in many parts of the world - "station" is synonymous with "mall", even in distant suburbs and smaller cities:
http://web-japan.org/trends/09_lifestyle/lif110120.html

What I (cynically) expect we'll get is a concrete stair and tunnel with only 1 or 2 entrances. Really, a station under 2nd St between 7th and 9th Ave could have as many as 12 entrance (or 6 split entrances), and direct connections to the future 8th Ave subway, 7th Ave ctrain corridor, CORE shopping, and possibly interior connections to other private properties. AND, the corridor and platforms should enable retail, food vendors, buskers, and public art. This really ought be the model for a future downtown stations (especially GreenLine Eau Claire, Green Stephen Ave, Red 5th St, Red 2nd Ave, Red Olympic Plaza - speculating on station names) and any future TOD projects. Imagine restaurants, shops, fitness facilities/gyms, daycares, and office lobbies right at the edge of the platform. And, most importantly, unimpeded connection from one mode of travel to another in any direction.

One reason I really like the way 7th Ave is set up is that there are no barriers (stairs, doors, tunnels, turnstiles, narrow corridors) to access the platform. But while it's easy for an at-grade station to blend seamlessly with the city, Calgarians might not realize some of the problems that commonly irk the success of underground stations (crowds, minutes added to commutes waiting in lines, poor ventilation, poor handicap access, poor lines of vision, perception of danger, poor lighting, poor pedestrian environments at grade, etc).

We've learned a lot since Toronto opened its subway in 1954 (and expanded in 1966); London's Tube has been a work in progress since 1863, Paris's Metro since 1900, and NYC Subway since 1904. Other cities hold Paris, NYC, and London as examples of successful metropolises - and there are many admirable things about these cities - but technology, design, and democratic capitalism has changed a lot since these systems were built. Calgary was right to build an at-grade LRT in the '80s, rather than trying to be Montreal or Toronto. Now that the benefits of grade separation are beginning to outweigh the cost of cut-and-cover in Calgary, it's only natural that Calgary build a subway, but let's build one for 2050, not 1950. Yes, it could be a lot of work and innovation for zoning (a la bonus density) and persuading adjacent properties to buy in, but having a plan and regulations developers can count on would be a start. It would be especially great if we figured this out before the 2nd Brookfield tower is built, if it's not too late already.

All this flexibility, integration, and access is made easier by Calgary's free fare zone and progressive honour-system boarding. Let's lead, not follow.
 
I'm in favor of the underground option also. The most expensive of course, but 20-30 years down the road the price tag won't seem so like much, but we'll have made the right decision.
 
It often pays in the long run to go with the more expensive option. I look at the portion of LRT alongside the Stampede grounds and wonder why they bothered coming out of a tunnel only to go back down into one a short distance later. It must have been cheaper, but nobody thought about the longterm, and how much better it would be to have 17th ave continue right into the Stampede grounds, and how much nicer the Stampede grounds would look on Macleod trail without that big menacing wall bordered by train tracks.
 
I'm leaning toward 12th ave. Not much there now, but there will be over the coming years, and having a station there would even help spur on the development. Either way, very happy they choose to go tunnel.
 

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