Go Elevated or try for Underground?

  • Work with the province and go with the Elevated option

    Votes: 25 71.4%
  • Try another approach and go for Underground option

    Votes: 7 20.0%
  • Cancel it altogether

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Go with a BRT solution

    Votes: 2 5.7%

  • Total voters
    35
@AJX, I agree with RyLucky. While a station at 12th is closer into the Beltline, the LRT still is by and large a form of commuter transit, and most people in the Beltline would walk or bike to downtown, and would not use the train much to get out out of the core. I like your idea of having the line run down 4th SW instead of 2nd and if that was an option I would probably prefer 12th, but yeah, that option isn't available. As far as the train tracks blocking the LRT from EV goes, an entrance way to the station can still be in EV and go under the tracks (I think).
 
Fair enough, good points made. I would be living right be the station if it was built on 12th so my reasons are maybe a bit selfish ;). By the time it's built I could be living somewhere else....maybe even along 10th! Just out of curiosity, was 4th street SW ever considered as an option?
 
Thanks! I suppose once the east side of the Beltline (Vic Park) gets built out more, 2nd st will feel a little more central and more tied in.
If 4th street SE station is above ground will they use an overpass to connect to EV?
 
I think you're right about most of the development potential being in the east. It's not entirely clear what a 10th ave/4th St SE station would look like, but most likely it would be at grade or above grade (4th st se goes below grade there). I'm not sure whether it will be possible or necessary to move the line slightly north into the CPR lands in order to allow more separation from 4th st. It may partly depend on (a) specs of the Elbow River crossing and (b) specs&location of the subgrade-to-grade section. 4th St SE will naturally provide pedestrian access to the station from the north. The station could be east, west, or alligned directly above 4th st SE.

Too bad we can't build a beautiful library everywhere the LRT goes underground!
 
@Always_Biking Totally. I imagine this will be the stop of choice for people travelling from the north or southeast to the Stampede, Saddledome, NMC, Central Library, East Village, or Victoria Park. By 2030, hopefully this will be a great location for new hotels, offices and condos. By 2040-2050 (YYC pop 2 million; YEG pop 2 million), perhaps there will be regional rail, high-speed rail, and an airport spur from the Green Line @ Beddington. There's also potential for something grand here in the future... we'll see!
 
There's huge potential to build a very cool and busy public space at 4th st SE and 10th ave. I would love to see a station there with some sort of mixed use development also on site, and integrated with the LRT station.
My one hope for the Green line is one beautifully built station, I don't care wether its above or below grade. But I really would love to see something cool go in that space
 
I hope they take their time with the 4th street station and design something well thought out. Such a strategic location with the underpass to EV. I forgot about the underpass being right there and how it will connect into EV through Studio Bell. It's a massive opportunity to tie in EV to East Beltline.
 
I had forgotten about the underpass at 4th st SE! That location is very important for the future of East Village and Vic Park, let's hope the design is thoughtful.
 
Many European and a few American stations do it well too. All I'm looking for is a seamless integration with built form, retail, and pedestrian corridors in all 4 compass directions in 3 dimensions. Too much to ask?

Here's a quick link to give you an idea of what metro stations are like in many parts of the world - "station" is synonymous with "mall", even in distant suburbs and smaller cities:
http://web-japan.org/trends/09_lifestyle/lif110120.html

What I (cynically) expect we'll get is a concrete stair and tunnel with only 1 or 2 entrances. Really, a station under 2nd St between 7th and 9th Ave could have as many as 12 entrance (or 6 split entrances), and direct connections to the future 8th Ave subway, 7th Ave ctrain corridor, CORE shopping, and possibly interior connections to other private properties. AND, the corridor and platforms should enable retail, food vendors, buskers, and public art. This really ought be the model for a future downtown stations (especially GreenLine Eau Claire, Green Stephen Ave, Red 5th St, Red 2nd Ave, Red Olympic Plaza - speculating on station names) and any future TOD projects. Imagine restaurants, shops, fitness facilities/gyms, daycares, and office lobbies right at the edge of the platform. And, most importantly, unimpeded connection from one mode of travel to another in any direction.

One reason I really like the way 7th Ave is set up is that there are no barriers (stairs, doors, tunnels, turnstiles, narrow corridors) to access the platform. But while it's easy for an at-grade station to blend seamlessly with the city, Calgarians might not realize some of the problems that commonly irk the success of underground stations (crowds, minutes added to commutes waiting in lines, poor ventilation, poor handicap access, poor lines of vision, perception of danger, poor lighting, poor pedestrian environments at grade, etc).

We've learned a lot since Toronto opened its subway in 1954 (and expanded in 1966); London's Tube has been a work in progress since 1863, Paris's Metro since 1900, and NYC Subway since 1904. Other cities hold Paris, NYC, and London as examples of successful metropolises - and there are many admirable things about these cities - but technology, design, and democratic capitalism has changed a lot since these systems were built. Calgary was right to build an at-grade LRT in the '80s, rather than trying to be Montreal or Toronto. Now that the benefits of grade separation are beginning to outweigh the cost of cut-and-cover in Calgary, it's only natural that Calgary build a subway, but let's build one for 2050, not 1950. Yes, it could be a lot of work and innovation for zoning (a la bonus density) and persuading adjacent properties to buy in, but having a plan and regulations developers can count on would be a start. It would be especially great if we figured this out before the 2nd Brookfield tower is built, if it's not too late already.

All this flexibility, integration, and access is made easier by Calgary's free fare zone and progressive honour-system boarding. Let's lead, not follow.

Well put RyLucky. If we are going to put big bucks into this, let's do this right. Like you said, we have other metros to learn from, let's do something better than a concrete tunnel with a concrete staircase.
 
Some Greenline news. It looks like the city is narrowing down the allignment choice to 12th Ave. It will either be a Surface + Tunnel which will remain tunneled until after 5th Street SE or a Surface Only option with will come to grade at 2nd Street and 10th Ave SW, turn onto 12th Ave SW and continue along that route until exiting the centre of of the city swooping North of the East Village bus barn.

Now for some editorial. It's gotta be the Surface + Tunnel. It's respectful on commuters, residents and visitors to the Beltline and Stampede grounds. It preserves the exisiting road capacity and adds new transit capacity. It adds a new station near the grounds where one is sorely needed and it provides a good focal point for the future development of the SE corner of the city centre. The Surface Only option would add to delays on MacLeod while snarling 12th avenue to a single lane at best and pushing car traffic onto a re-routed 11th and 10th aves. The Surface option is "nominally" the cheap or the two in that it has a lower up-front cost compared to tunnelling, but I think the damage it would do to the city's transit infrastructure would be considerably more costly over time. There's my two cents. That and $3.50 will get you a small coffee. ;)


Additionally, the Federal Liberals have reiterated their $1.53B committment to the Greenline that was originally put forward by the previous Conservative Government in the summer of 2015.

Nice to know it's still getting official support with the change of government. Here's hoping that the project is able to move forward in stages with the combined civic and federal commitments. It could be a long wait nothing happens before provincial money is forthcoming, but cause at this rate, it won't be.
 
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Can't wait to find out what option the city is choosing early next year. The Beltline is the last portion that needs to be determined. I hope it's underground as long as possible. It would also be nice if they moved the station from Centre Street to as close to the 2nd street turn as possible. I just think it would be so nice to get out of the subway and be at Central Memorial Park, a great urban experience.
 
Can't wait to find out what option the city is choosing early next year. The Beltline is the last portion that needs to be determined. I hope it's underground as long as possible. It would also be nice if they moved the station from Centre Street to as close to the 2nd street turn as possible. I just think it would be so nice to get out of the subway and be at Central Memorial Park, a great urban experience.

I think you've got a fair argument for having a station near Central Memorial Park, but I really like the idea of having one as near the Calgary Tower as possible. (If only they could do something about that ugly parkade and open the tower on both sides...) My hope is that some future line will come down Second of Fourth Streets SW and down into mission. Maybe if they're smart, they'll rough in a bit of the straight stretch at Second St & Tenth Ave SW for a future subway tunnel to this effect. However, if the recent revelations regarding the Mount Royal University C-Train spur is any indication I shouldn't hold my breath.

According to the website, we're supposed to find out this month about the alignment recommendation.
 

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