Go Elevated or try for Underground?

  • Work with the province and go with the Elevated option

    Votes: 42 79.2%

  • Try another approach and go for Underground option

    Votes: 7 13.2%

  • Cancel it altogether

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Go with a BRT solution

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • Total voters
    53
This is being reported as the new proposed downtown alignment

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Yeah, with that plan, you hack off crossing the Bow to 16th later, or perhaps with a low enough bid you make it a tunnel again, and you're done. BRT and LRT could share the ROW on centre I guess, but it is going to be a gong show of the highest order.

I could see a world where the surface LRT on Centre St south of 16th Ave is pitches as 'temporary' if the bridge/surface interface left enough room for a future tunnel tie in to get to a future station at 16th.
 
How are you going to fit LRT tracks on centre street? What about the vehicles traffic? Are they going to be widening Edmonton trail instead?
 
Does anyone know why they added tunnel in Beltline? The underground 4th St station will be an asset for Events Center users on frigid winter game days for sure, but will reduce some pre & post event foot traffic at street level. The previous alignment would have had Events Center users walking between 12th ave and 10th ave which would have been good for restaurant/retail business in that stretch.

I like the idea of a surface station in Eau Claire anyways. Perhaps, if they're using low floor trains they could integrate it into the neighbourhood like Portland does at their Pioneer Square.

A comment on another site, with the Centre Street BRT continuing to 6th Ave, is wondering why bother bridge over the Bow and up to 16th now for little benefit. It'll get people to use the green line to and from the Events Centre. Otherwise they'd need to walk ten blocks over to Centre and 6th Ave to catch the BRT.
 
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Ooofff, not sure I am happy about this. Might need to sleep on it lol.

The added tunnel length is especially weird in that they moved the 16 Ave N station to surface. Seems like a big mistake to me, though I do appreciate the extended underground length in the Beltline. I hope they can figure out to do both.
 
Alex_YYC said:
LRT traffic crossing 16th ave doesn't seem right to me. I think it'll be a gong show for traffic. On the flip side it might slow down traffic on 16th enough to make it into a half decent avenue.
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I wonder what it would cost to do a depression for the line under 16th and back up again? Essentially a narrow underpass.
 
I wonder if the 16Ave station will be semi dropped like they did for the WLRT...

I'm happy they are tunneling further in the Beltline, makes sense for the event centre and future development in the Rivers District.
 
googspecial said:
Ooofff, not sure I am happy about this. Might need to sleep on it lol.

The added tunnel length is especially weird in that they moved the 16 Ave N station to surface. Seems like a big mistake to me, though I do appreciate the extended underground length in the Beltline. I hope they can figure out to do both.
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I am surprised I like the changes as much as I do, I was getting negative - probably due to the Greenline's powerful opponents having unfettered media for months while the options were worked out.

Quick thoughts:
  • 11th Ave works as well as 12th, benefit in leaving a whole block between the new arena to drive traffic through a retail zone.
  • Extra underground - but shallow - future-proofs Victoria Park for a high density, transit-oriented neighbourhood in future decades.
  • Shallower LRT is far better to access and is the right call. The original plan had wild 7 storey deep platforms. That was my big red flag that the team got off-track as it's a crazy expensive solution to use a bored deep tunnel to avoid impacts in a city with as little traffic and pedestrian retail along the route as Calgary.
  • River pathway and Prince's Island interaction are the biggest issues with the new plan, but if we put some smart designers on it and do it right I can live with it.
  • Centre Street at grade is perfectly fine - again the problem is a political one not technical. The cheapest option was always to give dedicated surface right-of-way from drivers to transit WHILE not scope-creeping a transit project with road expansion.
  • If Centre is local access, transit-only south of 16th we have a great corridor. If the Roads department and vocal car-aficionados demand road expansion to keep car capacity (at the expense of transit, walkability and redevelopment) we missed the mark on that stretch.
  • Without more detail, I would guess the 16th Ave station might actually be like 14th Ave, to allow for an underpass at 16th Ave in a future phase.
Overall I think I like it as good or better than the original plan, with different trade-offs. Importantly, nothing stands out as a deal-breaker or a large development barrier - if anything this alignment helps transit access even more than the original on account of shallower tunnels. Will be interesting to see the response in public over the next while.
 
CBBarnett said:
I am surprised I like the changes as much as I do, I was getting negative - probably due to the Greenline's powerful opponents having unfettered media for months while the options were worked out.

Quick thoughts:
  • 11th Ave works as well as 12th, benefit in leaving a whole block between the new arena to drive traffic through a retail zone.
  • Extra underground - but shallow - future-proofs Victoria Park for a high density, transit-oriented neighbourhood in future decades.
  • Shallower LRT is far better to access and is the right call. The original plan had wild 7 storey deep platforms. That was my big red flag that the team got off-track as it's a crazy expensive solution to use a bored deep tunnel to avoid impacts in a city with as little traffic and pedestrian retail along the route as Calgary.
  • River pathway and Prince's Island interaction are the biggest issues with the new plan, but if we put some smart designers on it and do it right I can live with it.
  • Centre Street at grade is perfectly fine - again the problem is a political one not technical. The cheapest option was always to give dedicated surface right-of-way from drivers to transit WHILE not scope-creeping a transit project with road expansion.
  • If Centre is local access, transit-only south of 16th we have a great corridor. If the Roads department and vocal car-aficionados demand road expansion to keep car capacity (at the expense of transit, walkability and redevelopment) we missed the mark on that stretch.
  • Without more detail, I would guess the 16th Ave station might actually be like 14th Ave, to allow for an underpass at 16th Ave in a future phase.
Overall I think I like it as good or better than the original plan, with different trade-offs. Importantly, nothing stands out as a deal-breaker or a large development barrier - if anything this alignment helps transit access even more than the original on account of shallower tunnels. Will be interesting to see the response in public over the next while.
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I agree with mostly everything you said. I think for now the terminus should be the Eau Claire station at 2nd Ave. Everything north of that can be hashed out at a later time.

I used to live the Crescent Heights, and unfortunately, I think the alignment of Centre street will result in a big political battle. I'd be happy if Centre is transit-only south of 16th or auto access is restricted...the city could add a station at 9th ave. However, I think the local businesses along Centre and the roads department would go bananas over the proposal. Also, what would be done with the existing centre street bridge? 4 lanes are going to be severely under utilized.

One last thing...I think the 16th ave crossing needs to be grade separated.
 
I'd like to see Centre Street be 1 lane for traffic and 1 lane for transit south of 16Ave. No changes to Centre Street Bridge required if that's what happens. Will the city come up with a master plan for the rest of Centre Street now? that's one of the most underwhelming main streets in the city!

Crescent Heights will absolutely turn into a political battle, I can already hear the arguments about property values going down lol.
 
Mountain Man said:
I want to see the whole line built ASAP, NC Calgary needs this as bad as the SE.
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Me too. I agree, the catchment area in NC is very large.

However, it would be a shame if stage 1 of the project were to get bogged down by a political quagmire. The businesses on Centre would claim that they weren't adequately consulted. We all know how it would play out.
 
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