Go Elevated or try for Underground?

  • Work with the province and go with the Elevated option

    Votes: 27 75.0%

  • Try another approach and go for Underground option

    Votes: 6 16.7%

  • Cancel it altogether

    Votes: 1 2.8%

  • Go with a BRT solution

    Votes: 2 5.6%
  • Total voters
    36
darwink said:
The road seems to function at current demand. Especially compared to pre-mid 2000s.
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It definitely does, was just a thought.

Grade separating the green line at 16th seems like a no brainier to me, maybe a small trench like they did at 45St on the WLRT.
 
Mountain Man said:
It definitely does, was just a thought.

Grade separating the green line at 16th seems like a no brainier to me, maybe a small trench like they did at 45St on the WLRT.
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I'd like to see it completely buried, and have the station straddle 16 AVE - thus pushing it slightly more North, and to have entrances on each of the 4 corners of the intersection.

If the 16 AVE station gets built now as designed, becomes a temporary station, and then once the North extension goes ahead, it might work to keep that station open right up until the connection needs to be made.
 
googspecial said:
I'd like to see it completely buried, and have the station straddle 16 AVE - thus pushing it slightly more North, and to have entrances on each of the 4 corners of the intersection.

If the 16 AVE station gets built now as designed, becomes a temporary station, and then once the North extension goes ahead, it might work to keep that station open right up until the connection needs to be made.
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Or only closed for 3, 4 months.
 
I think there's basically four possible layouts for stations / crossings at 16th Ave:
  • At-grade crossing; the current plan. Station is at grade at 16th Ave, tracks cross 16th at grade
  • Trenched station; like 45th St W station where the station is at 16th Ave but in a trench, the tracks then cross 16th below grade
  • Deep station; the station itself is under or near 16th Ave as part of a tunnel crossing 16th Ave (closest we have is Westbrook)
  • At grade station with tunnel crossing; the station is at street level, then the train goes into a tunnel to cross 16th Ave (closest we have is Lions Park).
I don't think the latter two are very practical. The deep station is going to be orders of magnitude more expensive; building a full station under 16th Ave, with vertical circulation, platform, etc, is going to be a lot more expensive and disruptive than just the tracks. The at grade with tunnel crossing puts the station two blocks or more north or south of 16th Ave, which means there's no connection to crosstown traffic.

Here's the 45th St station:
1633554228100.png

And here's the Centre St/16th Ave plan:
1633546869311.png


The above plan is from the Centre St streetscape engagement. It could be built as a trenched station like 45th St, where the access at 14th Ave is at grade and the access at 16th Ave is down a set of stairs to the train; it's the same length as 45th St (165 m) and close to the same width -- a little narrower, but a centre platform instead of two side platforms. The 16th Ave entrance could potentially incorporate both stairs and an elevator, which would improve accessibility. (At 45th St, if you are coming from the upper side and can't use stairs, you have to go the length of the station on the sidewalk and enter from the other end).

The problem is that the station platform would be on a downslope; around 5%. As it happens, it's downhill from 45th to 47th St so the surface elevation changes and the station can be basically flat. Centre St is flat, so the station would have to slope. 5% is flat enough it's considered wheelchair accessible; the slope on Centre St up the hill from downtown is more like 8-9%. But 5% is not nothing.
 
I'd be very nervous about the Green Line RFP right now. With rising uncertaining around inflation, prepare for the bids to come in way over target.
 
Prices aren't as out of whack as the media would have you believe. Wood, concrete are back to a normal range. Steel is still out of whack, but it won't be forever. Futures for 2 years out are at prices from 3 years ago. There isn't a production--demand mismatch, only a logistics problem, one that the financiers think will take a year to fix.
1634763053833.png

A bidder, going in too high based on current steel prices, is making a gamble that no other bidder will instead bid with future prices based on probable contract close dates (when the winner will could exercise a hedge for their probable steel consumption and that of their suppliers). That would be a good way to not win.
 

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Chinook Arch said:
Has anyone heard any word on construction for the Green Line. This Wikipedia article says construction is to start on the Beltline section Autumn of 2021, but I haven't seen any action yet.
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The UCP funding snafu delayed any real construction out of 2021, but I believe some of the utility relocation work was still supposed to kick off this fall.
 
Main contract: "Preparations are underway for Phase 1 RFQ and RFP processes."
LRVs: "LRV procurement is underway. The RFQ was released in February 2019 and closed in May 2019. The contract is expected to be awarded in late 2021 and more details will be shared at that time."
Beltline and Downtown Utility Work: "Preconstruction planning started in spring 2021. Initial construction starts in fall 2021. Construction with the highest impact to residents and businesses will likely be in spring 2022"
SE Work: "Most of the projects are nearing completion for the current scope of work. Schedule analysis is underway for potential opportunities to progress further critical work."
 
ahuch said:
The UCP funding snafu delayed any real construction out of 2021, but I believe some of the utility relocation work was still supposed to kick off this fall.
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Even without any delays from the UCP government, I'm not sure any real construction could have started earlier given the leadership changes that were being made. The last managing director, Allan Neill, left in September 2020, a new Green Line board was formed over the new year to have better oversight of the project, and the new CEO position wasn't hired until July and a COO is still needed.

Some more details on work in progress can be found in the progress report to the Green Line board meeting held Friday.

Ft7zzP5.png


 
And the old contracting strategy before it was changed by the green line board, would have most likely led to a failed procurement of the tunnel. The tunnel segment had too much of the project at risk as a % of its budget. It would have been a nightmare - the city buying lrvs and the SE section and then scrambling to do something downtown.
 
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