The best option would be start from scratch for a whole new stadium, but if this is the option that works, then instead of renovating one side, they might as well demo one side and start that side from scratch. I think that's what Hamilton did.
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- Thread starter Oddball
- Start date
darwink
Senior Member
I think Hamilton had planned to do that, but then decided to rotate the stadium so that didn't work out.
UrbanWarrior
Senior Member
Have they still seriously not released a render? Christ, what a clip job.
FCC1982
Active Member
^Correct (re. Hamilton)
I think a total re-build of McMahon one side at a time would be feasible. I just wonder once all the logistics are factored in if it makes financial sense compared to building new on a different site.
I think a total re-build of McMahon one side at a time would be feasible. I just wonder once all the logistics are factored in if it makes financial sense compared to building new on a different site.
I don't expect Smith will make any definitive statements. No matter what side he comes out on, he'll alienate a one group. By saying nothing he gets to keep his anti-Nenshi crowd, and maybe take on some of those who are in favor of funding for the arena.
UrbanWarrior
Senior Member
Lol no. We unequivocally need a new stadium. McMahon is embarrassment for a city Calgary's size.
Silence&Motion
Senior Member
Not sure if this article was posted anywhere else on the site, but it is outrageous!
Calgary Flames owner eyes more than just a new arena
Some notable paragraphs:
"As part of the proposal, the Flames' owners insisted on receiving an option to buy and develop land near the events complex, a slice of the Stampede Casino's revenue, all parking revenue from major events it would manage at the events complex and other goodies. The demands included the city of Calgary covering the cost of flood insurance, reimbursing the club for all provincial property taxes that may be imposed on the facilities, and requiring local ratepayers to pick up the bill for a public gathering place suitable for festivals next to the arena."
"In the February offer, CSEC demanded an "option to acquire adjacent lands for the purpose of constructing residential or commercial structures including high-density housing, hotels, restaurants, etc.," the term sheet said. The group also said it needs to "approve" Calgary's master plan to revitalize Victoria Park to "ensure it will be an appropriate environment" for the arena complex."
And this is all on top of the other things that the Flames have demanded from the city such as free security and the imposition of a community revitalization levy on Victoria Park (even though I believe there is already a CRL in place on those lands for the East Village).
The city was right to tell the Flames to F'-off. If Bill Smith is elected, we are going to be robbed blind. But what worries me even more is the possibility that city would give up planning authority over Victoria Park to a sports franchise that has absolutely no interest or expertise in that area.
Calgary Flames owner eyes more than just a new arena
Some notable paragraphs:
"As part of the proposal, the Flames' owners insisted on receiving an option to buy and develop land near the events complex, a slice of the Stampede Casino's revenue, all parking revenue from major events it would manage at the events complex and other goodies. The demands included the city of Calgary covering the cost of flood insurance, reimbursing the club for all provincial property taxes that may be imposed on the facilities, and requiring local ratepayers to pick up the bill for a public gathering place suitable for festivals next to the arena."
"In the February offer, CSEC demanded an "option to acquire adjacent lands for the purpose of constructing residential or commercial structures including high-density housing, hotels, restaurants, etc.," the term sheet said. The group also said it needs to "approve" Calgary's master plan to revitalize Victoria Park to "ensure it will be an appropriate environment" for the arena complex."
And this is all on top of the other things that the Flames have demanded from the city such as free security and the imposition of a community revitalization levy on Victoria Park (even though I believe there is already a CRL in place on those lands for the East Village).
The city was right to tell the Flames to F'-off. If Bill Smith is elected, we are going to be robbed blind. But what worries me even more is the possibility that city would give up planning authority over Victoria Park to a sports franchise that has absolutely no interest or expertise in that area.
I saw that stuff on the weekend, pretty crazy what the Flames are expecting. I've never had a problem using some money to go towards a new arena, but those asks are ridiculous.
Oddball
Senior Member
I don't have any free Globe and Mail articles, so I can't read it in full, but they have an interesting sounding article on the state of negotiations between the city and the team. I got this from lurking Calgary Puck. There's a guy over there, sureLoss whose something of a legend, basically their Surealplaces. He posted the article and has some key quotes from it, available here. It details the events of a tense closed door meeting from July 31st.
Two things struck me. One, Nenshi seems to have made the issue a bit personal with Murray Edwards according to Councillor Colley-Urquhart. It sounds like neither were particularly friendly, but in the councillor's opinion it was Nenshi who was further out of line. Second, the Flames refused to open their books to council, which doesn't sound like particularly good faith negotiating to me. I have to wonder if a mediator couldn't be of some use here.
There's also an absolutely trash article on SportsNet about the state of arena affairs from Eric Francis a pretty hit or miss hockey journalist stepping outside his area of expertise to wax morosely about the Flames odds of remaining in Calgary. He's a shill for the team no matter what he says. There's a reason they picked him for the breaking tweets.
Two things struck me. One, Nenshi seems to have made the issue a bit personal with Murray Edwards according to Councillor Colley-Urquhart. It sounds like neither were particularly friendly, but in the councillor's opinion it was Nenshi who was further out of line. Second, the Flames refused to open their books to council, which doesn't sound like particularly good faith negotiating to me. I have to wonder if a mediator couldn't be of some use here.
There's also an absolutely trash article on SportsNet about the state of arena affairs from Eric Francis a pretty hit or miss hockey journalist stepping outside his area of expertise to wax morosely about the Flames odds of remaining in Calgary. He's a shill for the team no matter what he says. There's a reason they picked him for the breaking tweets.
darwink
Senior Member
I wouldn't want to open my books to city council either - leaky! But the city appointing a lead negotiator of some sort that council would trust enough that when they say "the arena would be cash flow negative with property tax" maybe the Flames would allow them to look, and that could work?
Operater
Active Member
Hi Group,
I have been Staying off this Topic for Various Reasons, Mainly Because Yes I Favour the Ideas that was in the West End, Having the Hockey Teams, FootBall Team and Other Events All Under One Roof, Enclosed. If this was ALL Going to B in Victoria Park I could Go With It, Edmonton got a GOOD DEAL of Sorts For Their Hockey Teams, Yes It Will COST a Lot to Clean Up the West End and the Car Dealerships Will Move on in Time, If Developers Want to Develope the Land at Some Future Time, Do It NOW or 10 Yrs Down the Road, the Dvlprs will B Within Their Rights to Expect Gvmnt Help on Clean U Costs - to B Expected, I will Follow this but I an Clearly Pro West Village, Hope Its OK.
Tnx,
Operaer
I have been Staying off this Topic for Various Reasons, Mainly Because Yes I Favour the Ideas that was in the West End, Having the Hockey Teams, FootBall Team and Other Events All Under One Roof, Enclosed. If this was ALL Going to B in Victoria Park I could Go With It, Edmonton got a GOOD DEAL of Sorts For Their Hockey Teams, Yes It Will COST a Lot to Clean Up the West End and the Car Dealerships Will Move on in Time, If Developers Want to Develope the Land at Some Future Time, Do It NOW or 10 Yrs Down the Road, the Dvlprs will B Within Their Rights to Expect Gvmnt Help on Clean U Costs - to B Expected, I will Follow this but I an Clearly Pro West Village, Hope Its OK.
Tnx,
Operaer
Meikkhaell
Active Member
Sorry to bump this, I actually randomly misclicked on this thread and got kinda intrigued. 
I'm fine with public money being spent on an arena so long as a master plan is worked in - like in Edmonton, where all people can benefit regardless of if they like hockey or not.
I'd also expect the arena to be quite impressive, not some cookie-cutter bowl for that kind of money.
As for McMahon, isn't it one of the larger stadiums in Canada? I'm aware the nosebleed seats are pretty uncomfortable having been there a few times, and the "mezzanine" thing isn't extravagant. But in terms of capacity, I think it's okay.
I'm fine with public money being spent on an arena so long as a master plan is worked in - like in Edmonton, where all people can benefit regardless of if they like hockey or not.
I'd also expect the arena to be quite impressive, not some cookie-cutter bowl for that kind of money.
As for McMahon, isn't it one of the larger stadiums in Canada? I'm aware the nosebleed seats are pretty uncomfortable having been there a few times, and the "mezzanine" thing isn't extravagant. But in terms of capacity, I think it's okay.
Oddball
Senior Member
Don't be sorry. I think we all wish that there was a little more to be said on this since the election. It's been pretty much radio silence from what I've caught. :S
As for McMahon it's the 5th largest stadium in Canada (with or without the temporary seating) according to the 'Pedes. RogSKYDOMErs Centre in Toronto, Commonwealth in Edmonton, BC Place in Vancouver and the Big O in montreal are all higher capacity.
For McMahon, I'd like to see the follow Hamilton's lead. Tear down half, rebuild it then do the same for the other side then maybe remake the central portions with the Red & White Club and the dressing rooms so that it all actually flows. I really wanted to go to the Western Final, but I was out of town.
So unfortunately the only game I got to this year was a miserably snowy blow out by the Riders. We all know the asphalt sucks, we all know the open air sucks, but one thing I really forgot about it just how crammed it gets in there. They have to widen the main passage ways, maybe even add a second level concourse if it's feasible.
As for McMahon it's the 5th largest stadium in Canada (with or without the temporary seating) according to the 'Pedes. RogSKYDOMErs Centre in Toronto, Commonwealth in Edmonton, BC Place in Vancouver and the Big O in montreal are all higher capacity.
For McMahon, I'd like to see the follow Hamilton's lead. Tear down half, rebuild it then do the same for the other side then maybe remake the central portions with the Red & White Club and the dressing rooms so that it all actually flows. I really wanted to go to the Western Final, but I was out of town.
So unfortunately the only game I got to this year was a miserably snowy blow out by the Riders. We all know the asphalt sucks, we all know the open air sucks, but one thing I really forgot about it just how crammed it gets in there. They have to widen the main passage ways, maybe even add a second level concourse if it's feasible.
