darwink
Senior Member
the land is just too expensive and unlike most places, it is relatively easy to get planning permission at other sites.
Tall TOD is a symptom of restrictive planning imo. Not a sign of a vibrant awesome organic evolution.
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- Thread starter Always_Biking
- Start date
Tall TOD is a symptom of restrictive planning imo. Not a sign of a vibrant awesome organic evolution.
Just curious why it would be difficult to get planning permission for those parcels, compared to others. The cost I can understand, but wouldn't planning permission be the same as other places in that area?
Cowtown
Senior Member
I would really like to see today’s numbers. With the Ctrain system increasing ridership by 60% since that time some things have changed.
Anecdotally there’s no question the system has changed from a commuter system to more of a general rail system in the past 20 years.
darwink
Senior Member
It isn’t. But the land cost is high on Chinook and environs. So why would you do it on Chinook when you can realize higher profits elsewhere?
In other locals it was way easier to get approvals at or near malls. They were (nearly) the only game in town for a long while.
Red Star
New Member
An interesting article on Transit Safety:
It's disappointing to hear that safety concerns may be stymying transit ridership. I've personally never experienced an issue on Calgary Transit where I've felt unsafe. However, I'm sure seniors, women or people with disabilities may have a different experience when using transit. I think overall Calgary Transit is fairly safe, but it may be the perception of safety that is deterring people from using transit.
The jist of the article is that homelessness is on the rise, homeless shelters are unsafe and many homeless people use transit as a safe place to pass the day.
It's disappointing to hear that safety concerns may be stymying transit ridership. I've personally never experienced an issue on Calgary Transit where I've felt unsafe. However, I'm sure seniors, women or people with disabilities may have a different experience when using transit. I think overall Calgary Transit is fairly safe, but it may be the perception of safety that is deterring people from using transit.
The jist of the article is that homelessness is on the rise, homeless shelters are unsafe and many homeless people use transit as a safe place to pass the day.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Driving is very dangerous - in fact, it's probably one of the most dangerous things the average person does regularly without thinking about it. So why do 75% of people drive?
It's faster - doesn't matter if it's dangerous, or incredibly costly to the individual. It's just faster.
That's what transit needs to get focused on - being competitively fast. Of course, safety is always important - but I guarantee the biggest reason people don't use transit as much as they would otherwise isn't safety, it's that it's punishing slow to get where you need to go reliably. Just like driving, people seem to forget about safety issues if it's quick to get where you need to go.
Red Star
New Member
Those are good points. Although I don't have the data in front of me, I agree that auto travel is probably more dangerous on a per km basis than public transit.
I think it's the public perception that matters. When you enter a vehicle, you are usually alone and feel safe (even though you're operating a heavy machine that can travel faster than 100km/h). Contrast that with the experience of waiting for a bus or train and homeless people are shooting up beside you. You're probably very safe, but you're right beside an indecent activity.
I personally don't see what's wrong with trying to prioritize a safe and fast public transit system or cultivating the perception that a public transit system is safe and fast.
You say that driving is faster. But is that actually true? During the morning rush hour I can probably train it faster to city hall than someone that is driving from the same train station.
I think it's the public perception that matters. When you enter a vehicle, you are usually alone and feel safe (even though you're operating a heavy machine that can travel faster than 100km/h). Contrast that with the experience of waiting for a bus or train and homeless people are shooting up beside you. You're probably very safe, but you're right beside an indecent activity.
I personally don't see what's wrong with trying to prioritize a safe and fast public transit system or cultivating the perception that a public transit system is safe and fast.
You say that driving is faster. But is that actually true? During the morning rush hour I can probably train it faster to city hall than someone that is driving from the same train station.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
That is why 250,000 people a day use the train despite it being regularly labelled as "dangerous" - it is legitimately competitive to driving. It's not faster for all trips but close enough that with the hassle and cost for parking for many spots on the line you're better off taking it. Transit should build on that approach.
trtcttc
Active Member
Agreed we should make transit fast and safe. However, the safety concerns in Calgary are overblown. Does it feel more unsafe than being in a private vehicle? Yes, since there are more people around, so the potential of some social issues is inevitable. Someone that always drove, may find transit unsafe, but someone that only ever took the New York Subway or TTC or any other big city transit wouldn't think twice about safety in Calgary.
It's also a matter of ridership. The easiest way to increase safety perception is by getting more people on the trains/buses. If your late night commute has 20 people instead of 3, the 1 problematic individual would be a lot less of a concern.
Definitely important. During covid I took the train a couple of times, and it actually did feel unsafe, it was the only time really that's it's ever felt unsafe to me. There were a few times in the 90's when I took the train at night and it was sketchy, but that was at a time when the system wasn't as busy, especially after hours. I'm so glad that the system has moved away from a mainly rush hour commuter based system.
trtcttc
Active Member
With all the population boom in the last couple of years, has there been any meaningful increase in transit frequency? The PTN was approved, but was it actually implemented? It's crazy to me that many busses that connect to a CTrain station are operating at 30 minute headway. That makes a huge difference if you have an activity that starts at a set time, you'd essentially need to budget for up to a 30 minute wait.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
There was this global pandemic a few years back that absolutely crushed ridership and service frequencies for a few years but it's been building back up. A few notable examples, which are probably the most frequent routes in the network:
- Red Line (mostly 4 car trains) and Blue Line (3 car trains), this must be at or exceeding pre-pandemic service levels for LRT:
- Weekdays: 10 minutes or better all day ~5am to ~9pm, including peak hours between 7 - 10am and 3 - 6pm is closer to every 5 minutes..
- Weekend: 10 minutes all day ~5am to ~2am for Red Line; 10 to 12 minutes all day for Blue Line
- Route 3 / 301 on Centre Street
- Weekday: ~10 minutes combined frequency all day, closer to 5 minutes during rush hour
- Weekend: 10 to 15 minute combined frequency
- MAX Orange on 16th Avenue N, probably the best improved service of any route as it didn't exist prior to 2016.
- Weekday: 10 to 12 minute all day
- Weekend: ~20 minute frequency
[Quick aside]: this is yet another opportunity to rant about the inaccessible CT data - the only way to know the frequency of any given route I gave above is look them up one-by-one and make some inferences on the stop pattern. As far as I know, there is nothing published that lists all routes and the current frequency which is just wild to me this isn't readily available.
The big lessons here is it's far more useful to put additional service on fast direct routes (all the examples listed above) than on winding, slow and inefficient ones (much of the feeder bus routes).
To implement the PTN there will need to be some substantial rethinking of many routes to create more of this direct, fast ones and fewer slow, winding ones. MAX is a good start, but we need to get serious about some bigger changes to get all busses moving a lot faster - i.e. remove about 30% of all stops, remove stupid deviations to service low-ridership areas etc.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
RouteAhead update should be coming in July; that's when last year's update was. Most of the Transit investments this year were (from the budget adjustments page on the city's website): Airport transit connection (east leg): design and engineering, Blue Line extension to 88 Ave N.E.: design and engineering, MAX 301 North (North Central BRT) Convertible Corridor: design and early works construction, Strategic improvements to transit service.
The last one specifically says: "This investment of $4 million in base-operating budget is for transit service improvements to high ridership routes and corridors, base service and local routes, and On Demand service to additional communities."
They say the benefits are: "This funding will enable buses and trains to come more often on key routes and corridors, extend the operating hours of transit routes, and introduce On Demand service to additional communities. Administration prioritized this investment because it will improves reliability, accessibility and connectivity on Calgary’s transit system, promotes social equity and contributes to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions."
As for what has actually happened with that $4 million, hopefully we find out in the next annual RouteAhead update.
Urban Outdoorsman
Active Member
Two years ago I was on the c-train and someone was legit smoking meth on the train right next to me 
At various points in my life I've used the train daily and I've seen my fair share of sketchy activity. I personally don't blame people for thinking it's dangerous. All it takes is one or two uncomfortable encounters, even second hand ones, to start perceiving it as dangerous.
The trouble isn't necessarily the actual risks, but the perceived risks, and one of the scariest things about people with severe mental health issues (usually paired with drugs) is that they're extremely unpredictable.
All that to say, are people justified in perceiving transit as dangerous? Probably not in a technical sense, but psychologically I don't blame people for being hesitant.
At various points in my life I've used the train daily and I've seen my fair share of sketchy activity. I personally don't blame people for thinking it's dangerous. All it takes is one or two uncomfortable encounters, even second hand ones, to start perceiving it as dangerous.
The trouble isn't necessarily the actual risks, but the perceived risks, and one of the scariest things about people with severe mental health issues (usually paired with drugs) is that they're extremely unpredictable.
All that to say, are people justified in perceiving transit as dangerous? Probably not in a technical sense, but psychologically I don't blame people for being hesitant.
