[adamyyc]

Rather than spend ~$1 billion to move the line, I'd rather see the City and Province spend the ~$1 billion to build the airport to Banff project so residents can actually use the corridor.

Even more reason for the City to buy up the vacant parking lots on the north side of the rail line and south side of 9th Ave SW. In addition to developing a central park, they could incorporate a central station at that location.

 

[JonnyCanuck]

I know this was discussed at one time, but doesn't CP transport hazardous materials through that downtown line? It hasn't been a problem yet, but it might be some day.

Yes they do. I think trains with that type of cargo have to go at a much lower speed when going through the city and I am sure train traffic is monitored very carefully. However there is and has always been a risk of having a Lac Megantic or Mississauga (1979) type of accident in the inner city.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

I know this was discussed at one time, but doesn't CP transport hazardous materials through that downtown line? It hasn't been a problem yet, but it might be some day.

A friend of mine who used to be a senior urban planner with the city told me I would be shocked/terrified if I knew the crazy shit they were pushing through the core of our city on those tracks. He wouldn’t tell me what kind of crazy shit though. Though he alluded that there were volatile/highly explosive materials involved.

 

[Silence&Motion]

However there is and has always been a risk of having a Lac Megantic or Mississauga (1979) type of accident in the inner city.

It would really suck if this ends up being what finally leads to relocating the rail line.

 

[Mountain Man]

After 9/11 I was always scared that someone would strap a bomb to one of the chemical or petroleum trains as it went through downtown, that could do some insane damage to our city...

 

[UrbanWarrior]

There's never a point where we're immune to terrorism. The terrorist attack on the US Capitol proved that, the Christmas Day bombing of Nashville as well.

A bomb strapped to an ammonium nitrate train could fairly easily happen. A dirty bomb as well, there's enough relatively easily accessible tritium and radium out there Of course, those are extreme scenarios, but we need to stop thinking the psychopath conservatives/fundamentalists behind the aforementioned terrorist incidents were just dumb hicks. They had a plan, and they almost succeeded.

 

[DougB]

I think many forumers underestimate the challenges associated with both providing passenger rail service to Banff, and relocating the CPR mainline out of dt Calgary. The line tightly hugs the Bow River and would not have room for parallel lines or even sidings in many places to accommodate passenger rail. That is clearly evident riding the bike path on the west side below Edworthy Park, or through Glenbow Ranch. Relocating the line out of the valley would require some way to climb out at less than 2% grade and then avoiding the hills west of Calgary. It is hard to plot a route that wouldn’t require extensive tunneling.

 

[darwink]

The cost to rail to banff would be close to a billion buckaroos - the track works were estimated at $300-400 in 2019, but I have to say doubling it is safe.

 

[zagox]

I think many forumers underestimate the challenges associated with both providing passenger rail service to Banff, and relocating the CPR mainline out of dt Calgary. The line tightly hugs the Bow River and would not have room for parallel lines or even sidings in many places to accommodate passenger rail. That is clearly evident riding the bike path on the west side below Edworthy Park, or through Glenbow Ranch. Relocating the line out of the valley would require some way to climb out at less than 2% grade and then avoiding the hills west of Calgary. It is hard to plot a route that wouldn’t require extensive tunneling.

It will be interesting to the CIB/provincial study on the question. For the stretches through Edworthy Park and Glenbow Ranch where the right of way is very tight, I bet they will recommend negotiating a payment with CP to share the existing single track, with short sidings for passenger trains to wait on either side. If we are talking about ~5km of single track out of a ~140km route, the impact on travel time would be fairly minor.

 

[darwink]

The Banff study did provide cost estimates based of typical construction costs (2017 dollars) for:

 

[zagox]

The Banff study did provide cost estimates based of typical construction costs (2017 dollars) for:
View attachment 326116

The Banff study did provide cost estimates based of typical construction costs (2017 dollars) for:
View attachment 326116

$50M for 6km of track construction from downtown to Bowness to Sunalta seems very light when you look at the actual conditions around Edworthy Park. I think continuous double track through that area will be cost prohibitive. We will hopefully see more detail when the CIB finishes their study.

To bring this back to the question of revitalizing downtown, regardless of whether it is a $0.7 billion or $1.3 billion investment, passenger rail to Banff would place downtown Calgary much more firmly on the typical tourist route. I think it would do a lot to bring another source of foot traffic at off peak times, and would complement residential conversions, post-secondary expansion, and greenfield development of the parking lots along the rail corridor. A direct train to Canmore and Banff would be a great selling point for apartments and for universities.

 

[darwink]

$50M for 6km of track construction from downtown to Bowness to Sunalta seems very light when you look at the actual conditions around Edworthy Park. I think continuous double track through that area will be cost prohibitive. We will hopefully see more detail when the CIB finishes their study.

To bring this back to the question of revitalizing downtown, regardless of whether it is a $0.7 billion or $1.3 billion investment, passenger rail to Banff would place downtown Calgary much more firmly on the typical tourist route. I think it would do a lot to bring another source of foot traffic at off peak times, and would complement residential conversions, post-secondary expansion, and greenfield development of the parking lots along the rail corridor. A direct train to Canmore and Banff would be a great selling point for apartments and for universities.

I'd say it is probably safe to double the banff study civil works amount - plus add the portion to the airport at at least $500 million, but that we also need to be mindful of applying our urban area rules of thumb to 'country side' construction conditions.

I very much agree that especially with our big investment in convention tourism, that the train makes a whole lotta sense.

 

[CBBarnett]

$50M for 6km of track construction from downtown to Bowness to Sunalta seems very light when you look at the actual conditions around Edworthy Park. I think continuous double track through that area will be cost prohibitive. We will hopefully see more detail when the CIB finishes their study.

To bring this back to the question of revitalizing downtown, regardless of whether it is a $0.7 billion or $1.3 billion investment, passenger rail to Banff would place downtown Calgary much more firmly on the typical tourist route. I think it would do a lot to bring another source of foot traffic at off peak times, and would complement residential conversions, post-secondary expansion, and greenfield development of the parking lots along the rail corridor. A direct train to Canmore and Banff would be a great selling point for apartments and for universities.

Agreed. It's a really good project to remind everyone to look at the net overall benefit, not just the project specific costs/benefit.

Anything of somewhat reasonable quality would be a huge win for many things all throughout the line: from reducing traffic congestion, pollution and impacts to the park from vehicle traffic today to improving access the the mountains for everyone to boosting downtown's roles as a key anchor in the regional corridor. Huge spin-off multipliers are everywhere around this project.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

I'm disappointed by the concrete-before-organization thinking around the idea of a choo-choo to the mountains. There currently isn't a good, regular bus service, perhaps we could start with that? Instead of a billion dollars, bus service would be closer to a million dollars a year. And bus service doesn't block a train in the future; if the buses are wildly successful and jammed full of people, then the train can be built a year or two later and we'll have high confidence it'll work. If bus service wasn't wildly successful, the train would be unlikely to be, and we wouldn't have wasted a billion dollars for no reason.

Are there more benefits for a train? Maybe, if it's well used. But if you can get 50% or 80% of the benefits for literally 0.1% of the cost, you'd be a lunatic not to pick that option.

 

[darwink]

On-IT ran as a public service for 2 years wasn't it, then as a private service for a bit.

normally I'd be right there with you, since we should care about mobility first, but in this case, it is also about tourism attraction, reliability, bypassing congestion, bringing international travelers downtown on the route to Banff instead of across on 16th or the ring road, booking more, higher profile conventions, and higher net worth attendee conventions.