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Personally, I don't mind it at all. I think it's worth a shot, it's time for a change, and that time is now.
 
I think this is the way to go... I'm all for tolls as well. Toronto can't continue down the current gridlocked path.
 
I think the tolls would be a good idea. Maybe even just a toll between 8:00-18:00 mon-fri or something like that.

And as for the argument about jobs leaving Toronto. I think that maybe it would be a good thing. Put more jobs in durham region or other areas where people are commuting from. Just a thought..
 
If we toll the roads downtown, we need to toll the roads in the suburbs as well. Especially the 401, it should have tolls all the way from Milton to Oshawa, and other highways as well. Traffic in the suburbs in many places is often worse than downtown.

Also moving jobs to the suburbs is NOT a good idea. Toronto has done this a lot by moving jobs to Mississauga, Markham, etc. It does not work. The result is that (a) people often commute long distances between suburbs because they cannot find a job locally and (b) most jobs are poorly served by transit and located in "business parks" surrounded by acres of parking. This only serves to make traffic congestion worse. The best thing to do is to concentrate office jobs in a few locations well served by transit (like downtown, North York Centre, Mississauga Centre), build good transit connections between the various centres, and ban the construction of business parks in areas with poor or no transit service (like the State Farm business park at Aurora Rd/Highway 404 in Aurora, and the Loblaws business park at 407/Mississauga Rd in Brampton).
 
So businesses will leave Toronto and disregard all the other benefits of locating in Toronto (proximity to customers, proximity to other business, etc.) just so their workers don't have to pay road tolls?

Right.
 
business will move period, regardless of road tolls. some will move to the suburbs, some will move to toronto. remember that toronto will get much better transportation that will attract businesses.
 
andrewpmk said:
and the Loblaws business park at 407/Mississauga Rd in Brampton).
Click to expand...

This is an interesting choice (the business park is actually by Orlando of Heartland fame with Loblaws being an early adopter of the location) but it also addresses the notion of tolls driving away business. Drive the length of the 407 and what you find are new businesses/business locations attracted by, what's that you say, a toll road. I know that there is a difference between a new toll road and tolling existing roads but I don't think it is as much as people think....what businesses want is reasonably good access to/for customers/supplies/employees.

As for the title of this thread.......doesn't the 407 run an experiment every day on our willingness to pay road tolls? Is there any doubt about it?
 
TOareaFan said:
This is an interesting choice (the business park is actually by Orlando of Heartland fame with Loblaws being an early adopter of the location) but it also addresses the notion of tolls driving away business. Drive the length of the 407 and what you find are new businesses/business locations attracted by, what's that you say, a toll road. I know that there is a difference between a new toll road and tolling existing roads but I don't think it is as much as people think....what businesses want is reasonably good access to/for customers/supplies/employees.

As for the title of this thread.......doesn't the 407 run an experiment every day on our willingness to pay road tolls? Is there any doubt about it?
Click to expand...

I also realized yesterday, if we toll the 401, then the traffic patterns will change on the 407 by serving people in the 905 rather than being a luxury bypass. Why? Because right now everyone (incl myself) uses the 401 to go across town or hwy 7 to do the northern crossrown.

If every freeway is tolled, then 407 rates will be cut in half because the current users along 407 will simply use the faster express lanes on 401. Then with cheaper rates, people who live along the 407 will use it as their highway of choice to go across town....and then guess what?

Traffic along major 401 connectors like 404 and 400 will significantly drop because of the traffic being balanced out by two freeways rather than one.

The benefits to the road system will actually be phenomenal. So this actually benefits the 905. But royally screws over the 416 car drivers tho.
 
If 401 tolls are managed by the province, then perhaps the city of Toronto could bargain a deal in which their toll is paid for as a part of their vehicle registration fee in the same way that some universities in the province collectively bargain transit agencies for a discounted passes.
 
Yeah but the point of reducing congestion is to reduce commute times. People are willing to put up with congested highways because it would take even longer to take transit. This means that the reduction in highway usage that comes with tolls will lead to the poorer people taking an even slower mode of transportation (transit). So tolls only make sense if they fund an increase in the capacity of roadways, or preferably, improvements in suburban transit.
 
I'm quite sceptical about this. I don't doubt the poll results. If you offer Canadians tolls, or a carbon tax, or many other environmental initiatives in an abstract context like a poll, they say yes. Problem is, tolls and taxes cost money. When a politician stands up and proposes them for real, he usually gets buried. This is why we are now one of the most environmentally regressive of the developed countries.
 
Perhaps a trial run, followed by a poll, would make this more politically palatable. Maybe all the complainers would find that having driveable highways is actually worth paying a couple of bucks.
 
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