freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Sure we are....but judging their behaviour and taste just happens to be a completely separate debate from violating noise bylaws.
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- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
Sure we are....but judging their behaviour and taste just happens to be a completely separate debate from violating noise bylaws.
steveintoronto
Superstar
I don't, some techno is really good, at least a few bars, then it gets pretty boring. To each his own, most good keyboard players can loop disco riffs. Analog is back in vogue...It's hard to synthesize in digital form, unlike organ and piano (which can sound amazingly good on modern digtal keyboards, the Leslie effect has also come a long way, B3 through a Leslie never gets old)
Know what? I didn't even get beyond tuning up tonight before having to state: "You guys are too loud". One of the other bass players came up and struggled with the challenge of tuning that loud. He needed the punishment, I didn't. Saved my ammo. He played truly well, just recovering from a stroke post cancer treatment. Credit to the man. He needed that....He played really well.
I'm no hypocrite, in fact I'm the tuning prude, and it's about tone and temperament as much as volume, but the point remains: They can get as loud as they like (I stayed as audience with some others) they don't bother anyone not wanting to hear it, and that's the point. That's what makes good neighbours. None of the bands down there do. They contain the sound.
Btw: The guys were hot tonight, if they were all playing clubs (all of them have in other bands) they'd be one of the best bands out there. No-one wants to play clubs anymore. It's kinda sad, but so are clubs.
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Bradley Libralesso
New Member
Ok I grant you this, this particular topic is a bad place to make that point even for me, since I absolutely abhore going to clubs; and if this clubs gets built or not makes little difference in my life.
But there are two points I'm trying to make from this. The first is the world's biggest nightclub would attract people to Toronto, giving our city a needed boost in the tourism sector, especially if they make it a winter friendly place; since out winter tourism is pathetic. This would bring in money, and hopefully reinvestment into the city. Granted there are better ways to do this than this club though.
Second I'm making an overall point about the complaints that stall Toronto in development. When I go to and live in other cities things are bustling. In Taiwan everyone is hustling for money day and night. They are opening up street vendors and night markets, and it's alive. It feels like a city. Even in more conservative places like Italy, patios and gelato places are open long into the night. Here you get a noise violation fine if your place on the Danforth keeps their patio open past midnight. I walk down major streets at night and it's literally dead. If I didn't know how safe this city actually is I would be frightened by the lack of people. It makes the city feel very unvibrant, boring, and suburban. All these things are not attractive when it comes to promoting a healthy city in the 21st century.
Let's face it industrial jobs are gone and will increasingly by mechanised. The middle-class is disappearing, and the only way to make money is by opening business to the global elite; which means entertainment, artisanal goods, and art. In short the only way to make money in a developed country is to take back the money we give to the rich. Other cities are frankly kicking our collective butt at that. When I'm in Japan, the entertainment is insane. Day and night I can get whatever I want. When I'm in England, the theatre, pubs, and food are amazing all day and night. When I'm in Toronto I can hear a pin drop from a kilometre away, and most of our food is just stolen fads from New York and L.A.
I agree, this night club probably won't be the progress we need in order to build a healthier city. For me though, it is one step closer to changing the city into a more service oriented city. Because right now our economy consists of banks and property; hardly a healthy combo.
tripwire
Active Member
I totally agree with most of what you are saying, heck, I'd like to have much looser food truck/vendor rules, etc. But per the bold, this thread is specifically about this club (and how/why it's a bad idea).
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Either you don't get out much, or have simply never been to Toronto? That's usually the description of Toronto I hear from your garden variety Toronto bashers from BC...who have never set foot in Toronto.
The only people these giant night clubs attract are obnoxious twenty year olds from the 905....not global tourists. And they are just a dodgy money making scheme that attract drugs and violence rather than giving back to the city in any real way... just like casinos. They are more of a strain on the city than anything else.
Hey....I lived at Queen & John around 2000 when Clubland was the largest nightclub district on the continent, so I'm familiar with how 65,000 club goers affect things. Oh, it It was lively alright. But if I had a choice between that kind of lively and hearing a pin drop...I'll take the pin drop thanks. This isn't Ibiza or South Beach, and quite frankly, I don't want it to be. I much prefer the smaller intimate loungey clubs like you see on Queen W, College or Ossington. These kind of places promote a more mature behaviour and provide venues that support local bands and lively but not chaotic street life.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
For those who lack context, if you want an example of what a good club is, then does anybody remember the BamBoo ?
Great music (Sattalites, Molly Johnson, the Shuffle Demons, Bourbon Tabernacle Choir...whoo hoo) great menu, great vibes...a genuine cultural asset to the city. Ironically, things turned to crap as soon as Charles Khabouth took over (Ultra, then rebranded as Cube).
And if you want an example more comparable to the current Cherry street club, then you don't have to look very far....the greatest large scale nightclub in the history of Toronto....RPM. Off-the-charts fun, musical talent and "cool factor". Pretty noisy, but didn't bother the neighbours though as it was all confined indoors. Again, things got lame fast when Khabouth took over.
The pattern here seems to be that Khabouth likes to ride on the coattails of genuinely creative and successful clubs and then employ some formulaic, generic, trendy program that pales in comparison. He's a quick buck artist with a take-no-prisoners attitude. I hate the overuse of the word, but to me Khabouth is the epitome of what people like to refer to as a "douchebag".
If you weren't clubbing in the 80's heyday (or the late 70's for that matter), then you lack the context to understand just how utterly lame and banal it has gotten. But who needs talent when you can have stretch Hummers and world class puking.
Great music (Sattalites, Molly Johnson, the Shuffle Demons, Bourbon Tabernacle Choir...whoo hoo) great menu, great vibes...a genuine cultural asset to the city. Ironically, things turned to crap as soon as Charles Khabouth took over (Ultra, then rebranded as Cube).
And if you want an example more comparable to the current Cherry street club, then you don't have to look very far....the greatest large scale nightclub in the history of Toronto....RPM. Off-the-charts fun, musical talent and "cool factor". Pretty noisy, but didn't bother the neighbours though as it was all confined indoors. Again, things got lame fast when Khabouth took over.
The pattern here seems to be that Khabouth likes to ride on the coattails of genuinely creative and successful clubs and then employ some formulaic, generic, trendy program that pales in comparison. He's a quick buck artist with a take-no-prisoners attitude. I hate the overuse of the word, but to me Khabouth is the epitome of what people like to refer to as a "douchebag".
If you weren't clubbing in the 80's heyday (or the late 70's for that matter), then you lack the context to understand just how utterly lame and banal it has gotten. But who needs talent when you can have stretch Hummers and world class puking.
Freedom
New Member
LOL @ all the old people in this thread trying to tell young people "the right way to have fun". Go away with your sanctimonious navel-gazing. Youth could care less what you think of the clubs and activities they enjoy. Toronto is a big city and there is plenty of room for bars and clubs that accommodate all tastes.
I live on the waterfront and can hear Cabana from my balcony. It's not my scene but more power to the people who enjoy it. The NIMBYism in this city is laughable.
I live on the waterfront and can hear Cabana from my balcony. It's not my scene but more power to the people who enjoy it. The NIMBYism in this city is laughable.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
I don't blame you...it's far better to cry "geezerism" than dealing with the unpleasant possibility that...I might be right. ha ha
But you might have a point...staring at your phone all night while listening to watered-down "music" pioneered in the 80's is probably the best way to have fun.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Indeed, I remember the BamBoo! Had friends working there, and that was the days of actual bands playing to actual audiences and without the need for 10,000 watts of audio.
But the essential point is still lost on the moron generation who think it's "geezerism". I'm not going to get into the generational bash thing, albeit the most talented players of the twenties crowd seek us out: "You guys, why? Because you can really play, my generation can't". And there is some incredible talent in the twenty something crowd. But not many...
But besides all of that, the essential point remains the same:
We 'geezers' don't give a flying fug what you listen to. Just don't make everyone else have to listen to it, or we'll shut you down. I and my friends wouldn't want to impose our sound on others, what makes snotty nosed kids any different? Or the monsters that cater to you to tell you what to think and how to act? Yo!
But the essential point is still lost on the moron generation who think it's "geezerism". I'm not going to get into the generational bash thing, albeit the most talented players of the twenties crowd seek us out: "You guys, why? Because you can really play, my generation can't". And there is some incredible talent in the twenty something crowd. But not many...
But besides all of that, the essential point remains the same:
We 'geezers' don't give a flying fug what you listen to. Just don't make everyone else have to listen to it, or we'll shut you down. I and my friends wouldn't want to impose our sound on others, what makes snotty nosed kids any different? Or the monsters that cater to you to tell you what to think and how to act? Yo!
I'd never put those pieces together before, since I soured on the club scene decades back (you can only play them for so long before it gets tedious and counterproductive artistically).
salsa
Senior Member
Ok, so how about you keep all the "smaller intimate loungey clubs" on Queen W, and the "obnoxious" 905ers can have their industrial park megaclub that's isolated from everybody else. Compromise?
Freedom
New Member
Ok, so how about you keep all the "smaller intimate loungey clubs" on Queen W, and the "obnoxious" 905ers can have their industrial park megaclub that's isolated from everybody else. Compromise?
Bingo.
Freedom
New Member
I don't blame you...it's far better to cry "geezerism" than dealing with the unpleasant possibility that...I might be right. ha ha
But you might have a point...staring at your phone all night while listening to watered-down "music" pioneered in the 80's is probably the best way to have fun.
You realize your parents said the exact same things about your generation, right?
steveintoronto
Superstar
What is it about this twenty something generation that they just can't get it? They call them "smart-phones" so perhaps that's where the intelligence, or not, is resident?
The club in question is *ALREADY EXTANT*! And they're pumping out 10,000 watts of audio already, but it is *indoors* so everyone else doesn't have to hear it.
Why is that concept so hard for some to understand? I suggest reading back about how the issue (this time round) is with INK Entertainment looking to do an outdoor patio with that same amount of power.
But admittedly, that is a bit complex for the smart-phone crowd to have to understand. Maybe there's an app for unawareness?
The club in question is *ALREADY EXTANT*! And they're pumping out 10,000 watts of audio already, but it is *indoors* so everyone else doesn't have to hear it.
Why is that concept so hard for some to understand? I suggest reading back about how the issue (this time round) is with INK Entertainment looking to do an outdoor patio with that same amount of power.
But admittedly, that is a bit complex for the smart-phone crowd to have to understand. Maybe there's an app for unawareness?
10,000 watts of PA on a city patio? Errr...no.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Nope. Didn't happen.
Oddly enough, today's twenty-somethings are in the unique position of being far more dull and boring in their choices than their parents were at their age. Congrats....your parents are cooler than you are. ha ha ha
Happily, I think this is a temporary glitch though, as the current crop of tweens seem promising.
Back on topic....
This issue has a forgone conclusion as a battle between residents and noisy clubs has always, and will always end with residents winning. And not because one faction has the moral high ground, but because one faction pays taxes and votes.
salsa
Senior Member
I was at a dubstep concert a couple of weekends ago. The sound system: 150,000 watts.