[kEiThZ]

^ That's the whole point of stimulus through infrastructure to use up the spare capacity of the construction industry (who aren't really pumping out condos and office towers right now) to build infrastructure that can be used in the future (and hopefully will help save costs).

I am actually peeved that the feds let many of the cities re-shuffle projects. Originally, one of the requirements was for the projects to be unscheduled spending, basically not a project that's just advanced....because all that does is transfer the cost to the federal government and move economic activity from the future to the present. If the feds had stuck to that requirement, Toronto still would not have qualified to get its streetcar purchase funded. However, it seems like the feds have relaxed that rule and municipalities across the country are simply advancing planned spending...which given the state of the backlog in this country it could be argued is not a bad thing.

 

[kEiThZ]

Note that none of these rules are unprecedented. The Obama administration has attaches similar conditions to their stimulus spending in the US. The only major difference is the requirement to finish by March 2011 over here. And that largely results from the fact that most economists agree that we'll be climbing out of a recession then...and the economy will need that construction capacity to build infrastructure in the private sector.

 

[dowlingm]

The irony is that the downtown streetcars really aren't that ancient, compared to some out there. If we built a high floor LRT line like Calgary and Edmonton and refurbished the existing fleet we could continue to run them as they stand.

One thought that's occurred to me is to run the DRL under Queen downtown but to retain the streetcar overhead and run the CLRVs as "historic" streetcars. Queen could then be the default diversion route and Richmond and Adelaide would have its rail removed, but at the same time it would remove the disruption caused by parades, Much Music and so on.

 

[adma]

One thought that's occurred to me is to run the DRL under Queen downtown but to retain the streetcar overhead and run the CLRVs as "historic" streetcars.

Somehow, I can't picture CLRV's passing muster as "historic" streetcars, at least to anyone born before the debut of Muchmusic...

 

[EnviroTO]

The federal government has already said that they will still fund Toronto infrastructure which qualifies. They didn't loose the infrastructure money at all. They could have got more but it was a risk that didn't pay off federally. I think it will have paid off provincially. The province pays a portion of replacement vehicle costs in every city so I don't think it will be hard to justify.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Lordy, I hate to say I'm thinking the same as Jim Flaherty but, from the Post...

"Toronto chose to put forward one option only that did not qualify," he said. "In fact they couldn't fit it on the computer form because it didn't qualify so they had to send a letter."

Mayor David Miller should have looked at more ready-to-go projects, he said.

"Steeles Avenue is noted as one of the worst roads municipally in Canada in need of repair. Issues on the waterfront are another example-- these are items where we can put a shovel in the ground quickly," Mr. Flaherty said.

I said that a few posts back and I think most people in the GTA know how bad Steeles is, but when the federal finance minister is citing specific road resurfacings you SHOULD have had on your list, that's not a good sign.

EnviroTO - maybe you're right but I haven't heard the feds say that. Even if it's true, Toronto blew the timing. Every other municipality in Canada is putting out tenders NOW, so even if Toronto gets approval in a couple of weeks, who will be there to do the work?
How much time will they have during the summer construction season?

Colour me skeptical.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

There are streets (residential, commercial, and industrial) in Toronto where there no sidewalks. Could that qualify? Better than walking on the streets to get to a transit stop.

We need more sidewalks, but the smaller cities could decide on that in a day. In Toronto, it will be on page 1099, sub-section 3, part B; it would end on getting lost and take years.

 

[UD2]

Lordy, I hate to say I'm thinking the same as Jim Flaherty but, from the Post...


I said that a few posts back and I think most people in the GTA know how bad Steeles is, but when the federal finance minister is citing specific road resurfacings you SHOULD have had on your list, that's not a good sign.

EnviroTO - maybe you're right but I haven't heard the feds say that. Even if it's true, Toronto blew the timing. Every other municipality in Canada is putting out tenders NOW, so even if Toronto gets approval in a couple of weeks, who will be there to do the work?
How much time will they have during the summer construction season?

Colour me skeptical.

Steeles is a provincial highway. I don't think it belongs to Toronto.

 

[EnviroTO]

Flaherty suggesting using stimulus money on the waterfront makes no sense. The federal government is already committed for $500 million on the waterfront so why would the city use stimulus money there?

Steeles is not a provincial highway. It is a Toronto city street fully within the city limits but the north side is York region so the city thinks York region should cover half of the costs of maintaining it. I think there is a lack of agreement currently leading to it being maintained just enough to be reasonably safe.

 

[doady]

John Baird to Toronto: "Fuck off!"

I don't think he would have given any funding to Toronto anyways, no matter what.

 

[GenerationW]

the city thinks York region should cover half of the costs of maintaining it. I think there is a lack of agreement currently leading to it being maintained just enough to be reasonably safe.

If that's really true, how depressing.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

If that's really true, how depressing.

Oh, it's totally true.
Every year Steeles tops the Worst Roads Survey and every year Toronto and York Region talk about how they are close to negotiating an agreement.
Toronto controls all the land up to YR's sidewalks, which is interesting because I think most people would assume the "border" runs down the middle of the street.
But it's 100% Toronto's and (somewhat understandably) they want YR to pay about 1/2 the bill.

The stimulus fund was a perfect chance to finally get this ridiculous situation resolved — the road is fixed and Toronto only pays 1/3 — and they BLEW IT.

I found this article from last October and I imagine you'll see another one this October.

A quote from there:
“We have no more jurisdiction over it than we do Eglinton or St. Clair,” York Region transportation commissioner Kathleen Llewellyn-Thomas said.
Negotiations on a cost-sharing agreement have been ongoing since at least 2005 and were approaching resolution before a dispute over the Markham Bypass, Toronto’s director of transportation and infrastructure management, John Mende said.
The road was shared in the 1970s and both municipalities agreed about its mutual value, Mr. Mende added."

And from The Star...
"I started at Toronto as an engineer in 1981 and it was a dispute then," said Kathleen Llewellyn-Thomas, who's been serving as York Region's transportation commissioner since January. "It's just one of those issues that has been allowed to languish for too long."
John Mende, Toronto's director of transportation infrastructure management, said there's no real dispute over jurisdiction – the street belongs to Toronto – but the city and York Region still haven't figured out how best to divide the expense.
"We have deferred ... work on Steeles because we don't want to spend a lot of funds on the rehabilitation until we have an arrangement,"

Pathetic, eh?

And Doady - Baird said that because Toronto utterly failed to follow the process for the funding. If they had submitted a proper list I guarantee they would have received hundreds of millions. Baird may be a tool, and he may be "politically incorrect" but this is not his fault.

 

[kEiThZ]

I wish the electrification of GO Lakeshore was on the list. Advancing that would have been an excellent choice. It would have saved GO money in the long run, improved service, reduced pollution, etc. And it would have been easy for the Conservatives to swallow since it benefits a bunch of 905 ridings.

 

[rbt]

Toronto controls all the land up to YR's sidewalks, which is interesting because I think most people would assume the "border" runs down the middle of the street.
But it's 100% Toronto's and (somewhat understandably) they want YR to pay about 1/2 the bill.

I think the catch is that York Region collects property taxes from the buildings on the north side of the street, who, given their sole driveways are onto Steeles benefit from the street should be contributing in some way toward it.

I.e. RCC at 2000 Steeles pays Vaughan (Concord) property taxes.

Metro Hall should have required the border be moved north or south of most properties with access exclusively to Steeles in '89 and there would be no debate.

 

[waterloowarrior]

City gets $200M from Ottawa
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/694225
REUTERS
500 projects with a total value of $600M to benefit
Sep 11, 2009 10:49 AM
JOHN SPEARS
CITY HALL BUREAU

"I could get used to this," a smiling Toronto Mayor David Miller said as he joined federal ministers Jim Flaherty and John Baird in announcing that the city will get up to $200 million in federal infrastructure funding to stimulate the economy.

The money will flow to more than 500 projects across the city. When the city's contribution to the project and other sources of financing are included, the total value of the projects will be close to $600 million.

The spending will preserve or create close to 7,000 jobs in the city, the mayor told reporters at a news conference at Exhibition Place - one of the venues that will receive some of the funding.

"This public investment comes at a time when it is needed the most," Miller said.

Finance minister Flaherty agreed, saying "We are in the midst of the most difficult economy globally since the end of the Second World War."

This was Toronto's second stab at getting federal money. The city's first application - for money to build new light rail vehicles - was turned down because the job wouldn't be completed fast enough.

But the new projects receiving funding will be finished by the spring of 2011, which meets the goal of delivering speedy stimulus.

Included in the $600 million worth of projects is:

* $170 million to Toronto Water to fix basement flooding problems, eliminate lead from water lines and replace aging water mains;

* $10 million to build or improve trails and paths in city parks;

* $188 million for transit projects, including improvements to Pape, Dufferin, Warden and Victoria Park subway stations.

* Repairing Steeles Ave., long identified as one of the city's worst roads.

Smaller sums scattered across the city will be spent on fixing libraries, police stations and other civic buildings.



Here's the list!