[MuchoGrande]

Businesses in competitive industries will pass the savings onto consumers, or their competitors will eat their lunch. More importantly, it will help manufacturers and service sector jobs that support the export industry. That means some borderline jobs won't be shipped off to China, or Mexico, or Alabama. What's good for business and our competitiveness is good for Ontarians.

I did not know that that is the intention of the HST but, hey, if that's what happens then terrific. My sense was that is supposed to simplify tax and intended to be revenue neutral but IMO it's application to new homes requires closer consideration. Why should HST be charged on the land component that is part of what a buyer pays in every new home purchase?? In Toronto, the underlying land value is a much larger proportion of the home price than in other smaller communities and clearly the City will bear the brunt of this. Also, the HST is applied to the development charges, permit fees etc. Wait a tick, that sounds like a tax grab.

I still do not understand why we have to tax people so much when they are making a large purchase like a home. Shouldn't we encourage mobility and homeownership?? In a similar vein, the LTT is the extreme example of tax where you pay but get zippo in return.

 

[AKS]

I just get the feeling the government is trying to create urban sprawl. Tax the Torontonians to death. If they don't like it, move out to the 905.

 

[newbuyer]

You know what, I know that it helps businesses, but leave out all the things that currently exempt from PST. Why would include them? Next thing you know, they will be complaining why the low number on new housing starts and home sales and why consumer spending so low. Duh! Do they expect people will spend the money as usual and pretend that nothing happened? Of course not! People is going to think 2 or 3 times before spending their money. Want to sell or buy resale homes? oops... you gotta pay 13% on the legal fees and etc. Want to buy new homes? shoot! Maybe not, since I don't have enough money to pay for the 13%. It always been a tax grab. I would understand and agree if they just combine the tax on the current items which already taxed PST and GST.

 

[spider]

People, get a grip. There is only one reason for instituting the HST in Ontario and that is to provide more tax revenue for the Province, full stop.

As it is now, an Ontario resident purchasing anything outside of Ontario by mail order or other channels does not pay PST but after the HST is in place you will be paying Mr. McSquinty his PST because the vendor must charge you 13% HST instead of the GST at only at 5%.

Business benefits are next to zero, they could be provided by simple one-line revisions to existing PST law.

Business now do not pay GST/PST on items resold or modified, only on items used in the process of their business ie: machinery. Sales tax should only be charged to the final user in the chain without some form of drawback or exemption as is now the case.

Exporters will not benefit either as no PST/GST is involved in foreign sales.

Business book keeping will not be simplified for any business that sells outside of Ontario because all the various tax models existing now will not go away.

A mind boggling number of purchases are going to attract a higher rate of tax,
I guess there may be one or two that don't but I can't think of one.

 

[Paleo]

People, get a grip. There is only one reason for instituting the HST in Ontario and that is to provide more tax revenue for the Province, full stop.

As it is now, an Ontario resident purchasing anything outside of Ontario by mail order or other channels does not pay PST but after the HST is in place you will be paying Mr. McSquinty his PST because the vendor must charge you 13% HST instead of the GST at only at 5%.

Personally, I don't do that and that's probably true for most people. I don't order things from other provinces to avoid PST. If I order, I do so from American retailers instead of Canadian ones because 1) the Canadian distribution and retail channels see very little competition thus leading to higher prices and 2) Canadian stores have extremely limited selection where as bigger American retailers have every SKU imaginable to choose from.

The latter is reason enough for me to skip Canadian stores period.

 

[afransen]

^ Don't let logic or rationality stand between you and a good playground taunt like McSquinty. If you're allowed to assert things based on truthiness (what you feel in your gut to be true), I'm allowed to call you an unthinking oaf.

 

[Eug]

The HST is a smart choice from the business and export perspective. That said, had there not been the concessions implemented from the provincial government that we all asked for, then I would have been quite surprised if the new harmonized tax was revenue neutral. I suspect it would have made for a non-trivial increase to provincial coffers.

P.S. I still think that first year personal rebate bribe is rather tacky. If they had implemented the tax from the outset with a slight combined tax decrease, along with the stuff like partial rebates for new home purchases, none of the bribes would have been necessary.

 

[spider]

^ Don't let logic or rationality stand between you and a good playground taunt like McSquinty. If you're allowed to assert things based on truthiness (what you feel in your gut to be true), I'm allowed to call you an unthinking oaf.

Attaboy!
If you can't handle the message slag the messenger.

By the way, wouldn't "an unthinking oaf" qualify as a playground taunt?

 

[afransen]

Okay, your very first point stands in stark contrast to the facts: the HST is not being brought in to generate revenue. It is part of a tax reform that will reduce revenues versus the status quo, and lower the marginal tax rate on investment in Ontario substantially.

I won't bother pulling apart the rest of your post (as it already has been done several times in this thread). Suffice to say, you're talking out of your ass.

 

[spider]

Okay, your very first point stands in stark contrast to the facts: the HST is not being brought in to generate revenue. It is part of a tax reform that will reduce revenues versus the status quo, and lower the marginal tax rate on investment in Ontario substantially.

I won't bother pulling apart the rest of your post (as it already has been done several times in this thread). Suffice to say, you're talking out of your ass.

The judges have decided unanimously to award you an unprecedented second "attaboy" in the slag the messenger category.

They are, however, rather disappointed in your debating skills as evidenced by a failure to address the points made in my post with something more substantial than wishfull thinking such as any government is really actively working to reduce my tax load.

 

[GenerationW]

Wasn't the GST supposed to be revenue neutral when it replaced the Manufacturer's Tax?

 

[spider]

Wasn't the GST supposed to be revenue neutral when it replaced the Manufacturer's Tax?

The MST was levied against Manufacturers only, The GST is levied on all goods and services not only manufactured goods, with some exceptions.
Neither of these taxes applied to exports.

The 13.5% MST was paid by the manufacturer on their sales which were in most cases discounted from 40-50% off retail so it was roughly equivalent to the 7% GST at the retail level except the GST was payable on a much larger array of purchases.

Here is a link:
http://www.canadianeconomy.gc.ca/english/economy/1991gst.html

 

[afransen]

The judges have decided unanimously to award you an unprecedented second "attaboy" in the slag the messenger category.

They are, however, rather disappointed in your debating skills as evidenced by a failure to address the points made in my post with something more substantial than wishfull thinking such as any government is really actively working to reduce my tax load.

I made an argument. You made an assertion. There is a difference.

 

[Eug]

Sask premier claiming that the HST would not be revenue neutral, and would increase tax revenue

Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall said today he believes "in lowering taxes not increasing them," so he won't be melding his province's 5 per cent levy with the 5 per cent GST no matter how much of a financial incentive Ottawa offers.

"There are many other priorities," Wall said at the Council of the Federation meeting here.

"It would be a net increase in taxes to the economy and, significantly, the consumers," he said, adding "it doesn't make sense."

On Wednesday, Manitoba Premier Gary Doer expressed similar reticence toward following Ontario and B.C. aboard the harmonization bandwagon.

"The bottom line is we have opposed it," said Doer.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ In Saskatchewan's case, their PST is so low that merging the taxes may well require a stiff increase. But even in their case, I'd argue it makes sense to merge the taxes and then give out hefty income tax cuts.