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Alvin, you are right, I forgot about the BTX. I should probably look for a computer with an ATX form factor instead. Not that I ever plan to replace the motherboard since it seems too complicated. Upgradability is important to me, but I don't like to mess with the motherboard at all. But still, it is probalby best to keep all my options open, and I guess that means going with ATX.

As for sound, it is not really important to me, but 6-7 years ago on-board sound was really crappy, so I was just wondering if they have improved at all. Back then, I chose to buy a cheap $50 Sound Blaster Live Value card rather than use the on-board sound. And no, I don't plan on having using 7 speakers... 2 speakers plus subwoofer is good enough for me.

As for processor, yes the Dell does have the option of Q9450 processor, I am not sure if that is the similar to the Q9300 that you mention. If the Q9450 reduces the heat signicantly then it might be worth the extra cost. The heat issue is the reason I am looking at higher end computers like Dell, and not Acer or HP (which I have had bad experiences with anyways). Dell, along with other higher end brands, seem to have better designed cases and better internal wiring to improve air flow. Heat was already a big issue 6 years ago, so I can only assume it is a bigger issue now.

But anyways I guess I will have to continue shopping. Obviously I need to put more thought to this. Thanks everyone.
 
doady:

As for sound, it is not really important to me, but 6-7 years ago on-board sound was really crappy, so I was just wondering if they have improved at all. Back then, I chose to buy a cheap $50 Sound Blaster Live Value card rather than use the on-board sound. And no, I don't plan on having using 7 speakers... 2 speakers plus subwoofer is good enough for me.
Click to expand...

You are probably fine with onboard audio - integrated audio isn't as bad as they used to be. If you are hooked up to typical multimedia speakers (Logitech, Altec Lansing, etc) there won't be much of an issue with audio quality because the limiter is going to be your speakers.

As for processor, yes the Dell does have the option of Q9450 processor, I am not sure if that is the similar to the Q9300 that you mention. If the Q9450 reduces the heat signicantly then it might be worth the extra cost. The heat issue is the reason I am looking at higher end computers like Dell, and not Acer or HP (which I have had bad experiences with anyways). Dell, along with other higher end brands, seem to have better designed cases and better internal wiring to improve air flow. Heat was already a big issue 6 years ago, so I can only assume it is a bigger issue now.
Click to expand...

Very generally, BTX are designed to have better thermal performance - the catch is because it's not a form factor that is taken up by 3rd party manufacturers, there is really almost no aftermarket options for further improving thermal performance (unlike the almost limitless options for ATX)

Q9450 has a higher core speed (thus faster) than Q9300; and they tend to run cooler, with lower power consumption and higher (apps dependent) performance than 65nm processors of the same class - whether such an option is for you depends on whether you think it's worth the price difference (also keep in mind that a) you can still pop in a Q9000 series processor later *not QX* and b) Nehalem "Core i7" will require an entirely new motherboard anyways). All I can say is I have a Q6600 and I am happy with it.

Oh and one more thing, I hope you didn't mean Crysis when you said the latest games :D

AoD
 
I think the only decent reason to get dedicated sound these days is for things like fancy directional sound in games (like shooters). For music or casual gameplay, the onboard audio is great.
 
afransen:

Actually I would disagree with that - if you want good music from your computer, investing in a soundcard (but first, a pair of decent speakers) is a must. I found using headphones on integrated audio to be downright unbearable - the buzzing and hissing makes for a very unpleasant listening experience. And if your speakers are fairly good, you'd notice that unfortunate effect as well.

AoD
 
Damn, that sounds awfully similar to my own experiences with on-board sound, though that was a long time ago and I don't remember clearly.

My current speaker system is the Logitech Z3, which I plan to use for whatever new computer I buy. I am no audiophile, but I am pretty sure my speakers are probably not "typical multimedia speakers." They are only 2.1, but they are definitely high quality, or at least above average. So probably a sound card is a good idea. Sound cards are very cheap anyways, but still it is yet another expense.

BTW, does anyone else think that surround sound is overrated? I have never seen the point of it. I rather spend money on higher quality 2.1 speakers than on lower quality 7.1 speakers. But I guess that's just me. How does one find the space for 7 speakers anyways?

AlvinofDiaspar said:
Oh and one more thing, I hope you didn't mean Crysis when you said the latest games :D

AoD
Click to expand...

Haha, I don't think my demands are THAT high. Actually, being an old-school gamer I guess my demands are pretty low. I play mostly turn-based games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate... they don't seem to make these kind of games anymore though, which I guess is why I have not upgraded for so long.
 
doady:

You can probably get away without a soundcard for now - see what your listening experience is like then decide whether you really needed one.

Actually, Fallout 3 is coming out real soon...

AoD
 
I haven't noticed any problems with my mobo's integrated audio, Realtek ALC850...
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
afransen:

I found using headphones on integrated audio to be downright unbearable - the buzzing and hissing makes for a very unpleasant listening experience. And if your speakers are fairly good, you'd notice that unfortunate effect as well.

AoD
Click to expand...

Sounds like a driver problem... But I agree, unless you have good ears and great speakers, you probably won't notice the difference
 
I have a Dell XPS 710. It's an amazing piece of equipment, but even though it's aimed at gamers (I don't 'game'), it also has an integrated sound card. I didn't realize this until about half a year after I got it, although it's not an issue for me.
 
On-board audio is quite bearable now. There have been great advancements in DACs and sound processing in the last five years or so. I remember a Stereophile article about a year ago, where they compared a new $60 Toshiba DVD player vs. a $1000 CD player from about 10 years ago and found that they basically sounded the same.
 
the buzzing and hissing makes for a very unpleasant listening experience
Click to expand...

That's due to poor power supply rejection and isolation.

There have been great advancements in DACs and sound processing in the last five years or so.
Click to expand...

What improvements were made?
 
Therion:

Except that the motherboard, not designed specifically for AV purposes, tends to be noisy.

re: DACs - some of the higher end soundcards (e.g. Asus Xonar D2/X) have high quality ones like those from Burr-Brown. You won't find that on any motherboard...

AoD
 
I would agree that on-board sound these days are pretty good. I've never even considered getting a dedicated sound card, though I'm a pretty casual user in that regard.

Does anyone know of a good case? I'm looking for something sleek, simple and sophisticated, which seems pretty hard to find in a PC case. Right now the Antec P182 (black) is at the top of my list:

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=81820
 
I agree, Mac case designs are usually very attractive, although I'm not really a fan of the current Mac Pro case designs. Usually it's no contest though.

I don't know why it's so difficult to create a simple, sophisticated minimalist design. The best I've seen so far I think is the Antec P182 and P190 (at least with price factored into the equation).
 
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