[Admiral Beez]

The counterflow lanes for bicycles shouldn't require the painting of payment markings. Common sense should be used instead.

Agreed. Just legalize what's being done now. Cyclists yield at stop signs, and can run counter to One Way Signs (where marked).

 

[steveintoronto]

Folks...(to quote the Big Ford Automatic)...every one of those would require either concrete curbs/medians, or a change in the HTA.

I'm all for it, I'm also for life on Mars, and chicken in every pot. Dream on. The existing legislation spells out how contraflow is to be instituted. Lets all sing Kumbaya and share our booties...whoops, booty...

Etc, etc, etc...continuing at length Pg 118
http://www.raqsb.mto.gov.on.ca/techpubs/eps.nsf/0/825810eb3ddd203385257d4a0063d934/$FILE/Ontario Traffic Manual - Book 18.pdf

Stoopid rools....doesn't apply to me, I'm a cyclist.

 

[amnesiajune]

IMO, the counterflow lanes run counter to my thinking. Instead, make one way residential streets (not avenues like Richmond) fully exempt for bikes. Meaning bikes can go either way, without restriction to a lane. Sure, bikes must stay to the curb to avoid cars, but that's it. Next, stop signs are yields for bikes, meaning on the counterflow streets you'll need a small bike's only yield sign.

They should be painted because on some streets it's not safe because the street isn't wide enough. Kensington and Baldwin come to mind, along with a lot of the side streets between Bathurst and Lansdowne.

 

[steveintoronto]

They should be painted because on some streets it's not safe because the street isn't wide enough. Kensington and Baldwin come to mind, along with a lot of the side streets between Bathurst and Lansdowne.

Not only should, they *have to be* by Law. So many cyclists just don't get 'reality' when it comes to culpability. If you get whacked going the wrong way on a one-way street, all moral argument aside, by default, you are totally responsible for any accident that results from that.

And so be it, I'm getting tired of having to point out the obvious to so many cyclists. They just don't give a shit...I saw one today go flying past me as I was stopped at a red light, and he got hit. Ffffing goof....and he had a whistle in his mouth to match his canary outfit. To call out others for their transgressions.

That being said, the absolute worst out there now are the Uber and other food delivercators. Just total assholes.

As to some streets already contraflow, but not really wide enough, I'd nominate Richmond west of Bathurst. The oncoming eastbund vehicular traffic quite often strays well over the line into westbound cycle traffic. Not that many of the cyclists notice. It's not on the playlist for their iMe devices. And it doesn't match their outfits.

 

[steveintoronto]

This sign is up on Adelaide approaching Spadina, where the proposal has been made to shift the lane to the north side:

Ironic, or was the shift to the north side always considered?

 

[amnesiajune]

This sign is up on Adelaide approaching Spadina, where the proposal has been made to shift the lane to the north side:

Ironic, or was the shift to the north side always considered?

That sign has always been there since the first pilot program between University and Bathurst.

 

[steveintoronto]

That sign has always been there since the first pilot program between University and Bathurst.

And the irony endures...

 

[amnesiajune]

And the irony endures...

How so? It's still a temporary setup for study and feedback. That's why we're now seeing the proposal to move the bike lanes to the left side of Adelaide.

 

[mdrejhon]

A different kind of a counter-flow cycle lane (not documented here) is the protected bollarded 2-way cycle track on a 1-way street.

Cannon Street in Hamilton, Ontario uses this setup.

 

[mdrejhon]

Too blurry in this Google Streetview, but you can see how the signage is used -- cycle-logo traffic lights and no-entry signage.

There's good traffic during good weather days with the McMaster students and downtown commuters (me too) and recreational cyclists -- though it can get quiet during cold late-fall or early-spring days. But the cycle traffic has more than doubled and now they're making it more permanent. Possibly concrete curbs I heard -- hopefully.

 

[steveintoronto]

How so? It's still a temporary setup for study and feedback. That's why we're now seeing the proposal to move the bike lanes to the left side of Adelaide.

Irony: "a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result."

The irony is lost on you.

A different kind of a counter-flow cycle lane (not documented here) is the protected bollarded 2-way cycle track on a 1-way street.

I've cycled that and regretted it. Not a pleasant experience for me, as sixth-sense goes into overload with the realization that some idiot could be into the bollards and I'd got flying in a fraction of an instant.

Sorry to be so emphatic, but it is *WRONG*, albeit not as wrong as if it were on the other side of the street. Adelaide, IIRC, had that temporarily some years back, I was living outside of Toronto for five years at the time, back for a visit, and horrified by it. Hamilton has that in a number of spots, street names elude me at this time. These are exactly the failings of the GTHA and cycling infrastructure. It gives cyclists and politicians a false sense of security, and forces drivers and cyclists alike to desensitize themselves to the incredible risks surrounding them.

Add a concrete barrier, and the sixth-sense is immediately satiated. Bollards are bollocks. One only has to look at how many are snapped off to realize how vulnerable cyclists are. More cyclists and pedestrians were killed last year in Toronto than murdered.

 

[mdrejhon]

My spouse agrees with you.

I complain about #VisionZero #ZeroVision on Twitter too, sometimes.

They are looking into upgraded protection when they repave. It can be so much better.

We'll need to demand concrete.

But it was, at least, a minor miracle that even a bollarded cycle track finally arrived in Hamilton -- it took a large grassroots campaign to goad the city into installing this pilot project. (It's still in pilot phase). Credit where credit due. But yes. Concrete curbs.

 

[Irishmonk]

I almost got run over by some idiot on the Cannon street bike path. He was making a left turn into traffic from a side street, crossing the two way bike lane in the process. Naturally, he glanced at the traffic coming at him, but since Cannon is one-way he neglected to look in the other direction. So, when I passed the threshold of his front grill, he was already maneuvering his SUV into the traffic stream. I turned away as fast as I could and he slammed on his brakes when he saw me directly in front of him. Can't believe he didn't plow right into me.

A couple of other cyclists witnessed it, and told me personal accounts of cyclists and e-bikers getting struck at that intersection.

There is a dinky sign indicating the bike path posted for motorists turning onto Cannon, but it is small and the kind of thing that distracted drivers will overlook. Basically, the bike path is a terrible, faulty design waiting to kill its first victim (if it hasn't already)

Two way bike lanes on one way streets are death traps, unless the signage, traffic lights and barriers are properly placed to prevent that outcome.

 

[steveintoronto]

They are looking into upgraded protection when they repave. It can be so much better.

I'm glad you understand the point. Please keep this string informed of any improvements. Montreal (if not Vancouver too) have done it this way for years. It's the only way to do it safely and effectively. Toronto has it in a few spots, and it works well. It's what the Bloor lanes should have been from the start, with parking on one side, (unavoidable in Caronto) and a *physically separated* (bollards don't count) two way bike lane the other with clear sight lines and the space to overtake by using the opposing lane when clear.

It comes and goes, but lately I've lost my 'nerve' cycling in Toronto, too many very close calls. For all the awful accidents we've had here lately, it's amazing that there haven't been more.

I did a short trip into Toronto yesterday, to 'shake down' an old cycling partner, to make sure his machine is up to doing a real medium distance day trip out of town. His machine proved adequate (albeit he has no mechanical sense, and the service on it is poor) but even as we were discussing cycling safety, he shot through every stop sign without stopping, and on the cycle paths (we came down the Humber one) he insisted on riding parallel with me around blind bends. I was appalled.

I'm just headed downtown now on errands, really looking forward to the buzz, but not the roulette of dangerous traffic.

Addendum: The West Humber Trail: Grrrr! It's a gift to allow a sane, civilized albeit convoluted ride back into Toronto from the NW, but yet again, the attitude of 'Fuck Cyclists' is at work. At least they've put up a warning sign now for the sewer work when the trail approaches Weston and Sheppard. It forces a dangerous and totally uninviting detour. Last time I did it, I took the steps down at Starview Ln and Weston, but be warned, they are steep with no handrail and no landing on the way down. Very dangerous. I find when wearing cycling shoes that it's very easy to trip due to less clearance on the sole from running shoes. Best bet is to continue down to Albion, head NW and regain the trail from there, or cut down Albion from West Humber Park.

I remember Weston Rd being a pleasant country drive back in the 1800s...lol...the Sixties. It's now a nasty piece of shid, even to walk down. Don't ride it, it's a very dangerous, unpredictable route.

 

[steveintoronto]

I almost got run over by some idiot on the Cannon street bike path. [...]

Exactly! And my mention of "sixth sense" is about precisely that. You know damn well they're not looking, and neither are many cyclists, oblivious to the danger they're in.

I lost it with a cyclist last week behind me, ding-a-linging with her freakin' ffffing bell every time I slowed down passing parked cars on Dundas headed downtown. After the fifth time it happened (as I had my ears on full for any nuance of danger, your ears are your 'eyes in the back of your head') I turned around and yelled "F^&% Off" it was such an annoyance and dangerous distraction.

"Well you're so much faster than me, and then you slow down" "That's because I sense danger and respond accordingly" "Yes, but you keep doing it". WTF? They allow idiots like this to breed, vote and drive.
I then yelled: "Then go the f*&^ around me". She wouldn't. It's *exactly* this mindset that gets so many into trouble. I actually saw one doored a few weeks ago after a similar altercation and I stopped dead to force him to go around me.

It's not acceptable to do it when driving (honking your horn incessantly to pass or force a careful driver to speed up) why is it on a bike? I blow all these people away at red lights when they even bother to observe them, the vast majority have no idea how to use their gears, let alone their muscles.

Add that to a bollard 'protected' contra-flow, and it's a matter of time until disaster strikes.

Bike lanes have to be designed with two assumptions in mind:
1) Drivers are idiots
2) Cyclists are idiots
3) Pedestrians are idiots. That makes three.

My apologies to those who do follow protocol and common sense, but it's sadly lacking out there, and to reduce the carnage, let alone encourage safety minded cyclists to use the roads, the safety must be designed into the infrastructure.