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Here's something to ponder: if all levels and stripes of government support the SSE, why hasn't it been completed yet?
 
kali said:
Here's something to ponder: if all levels and stripes of government support the SSE, why hasn't it been completed yet?
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Engineering studies, certain outspoken councilors, 4 separate changes to the plan, priority changes, delays in the opening of other subway extensions, more engineering work, etc.

The Relief Line is a project all levels of government support in one form or another...why hasn't that been built?
 
kali said:
I know, I'm being facetious.



Eh, not sure about that. edit: not until quite recently, at least.
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Too late to Google but there was several politicians from Scarborough who said they would not support the OL or DRL if they didn't get a subway too. And here we are.
 
OneCity said:
'Value for money' =A term the LRT lobbyists & outer Scarborough political opposition weaponized when the sad plan to build one technology with little consideration to design details in Scarboroughs overall transit network with the negative impacts to future growth in the Centre was called out.

Other subway extension or connected LRT options never stood a chance to be reviewed in detail at the City level with such overarching opposition having no interest in actually seeing the long standing issues fixed when called to the forefront of an election. Even with 99% elected political representative support at all levels and stripes of Government within Scarborough.

Classism? Racism? Entitlement? Corruption? Some of all 4? Whatever the case may be some ousiders made a crap loud of noise and refused to even attempt to work with actual Scarborough voters (Ya, not the biased TorStar polls, another issue in itself)

Thankful that the Provincial Conservatives stepped in to fix the polarized one stop mess remaining from the dysfunctional City council and we will now build a very helpful backbone line for the future.
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From an engineering point of view - I see many opportunities to improve on the B-D subway extension.
But politically, I understand why it is going ahead.
If opposition to the SSE would say that they agree with a continuous fully grade-separated connection to STC, then it could have been re-opened. Instead they are saying they want to go to the David Miller transfer plan. If I were a politician, I don't think I would open to the door to change, if I knew the change was to go back to 12 years ago. So many alternatives to provide continuous rapid transit were discussed and rejected that now that they have a solution that received acceptance, I wouldn't open it up for farther discussion.
 
Shining Tree said:
From an engineering point of view - I see many opportunities to improve on the B-D subway extension.
But politically, I understand why it is going ahead.
If opposition to the SSE would say that they agree with a continuous fully grade-separated connection to STC, then it could have been re-opened. Instead they are saying they want to go to the David Miller transfer plan. If I were a politician, I don't think I would open to the door to change, if I knew the change was to go back to 12 years ago. So many alternatives to provide continuous rapid transit were discussed and rejected that now that they have a solution that received acceptance, I wouldn't open it up for farther discussion.
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That's a very nice summary of the present situation.

Yes, other opportunities existed but weren't seriously explored. Among those: a BD extension running partly above ground, or a branch off the GO/RER line running straight to STC.
 
Shining Tree said:
From an engineering point of view - I see many opportunities to improve on the B-D subway extension.
But politically, I understand why it is going ahead.
If opposition to the SSE would say that they agree with a continuous fully grade-separated connection to STC, then it could have been re-opened. Instead they are saying they want to go to the David Miller transfer plan. If I were a politician, I don't think I would open to the door to change, if I knew the change was to go back to 12 years ago. So many alternatives to provide continuous rapid transit were discussed and rejected that now that they have a solution that received acceptance, I wouldn't open it up for farther discussion.
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I believe the opposition has stated that countless times. We don't need two full subway lines to STC when one is overkill.

Transfers are a fact of life on transit. I have no problem transferring at Bloor-Yonge to head north to Yonge and Eglinton. That makes perfect sense to me.

Transferring to the RT also makes sense. I'm heading in a completely different direction, and it's a lot faster and more efficient than riding the King or Spadina streetcars. The RT is woefully underappreciated.

The solution for those who don't want to transfer is to take the GO Train.

In any case, I think what's been stated in this thread many times is that an above ground solution for the SSE should be explored. That won't happen since Scarborough was promised underground transit to make them 'first class citizens'. Barring that there should be a realization that the SSE means the Sheppard East and Eglinton East LRT extensions aren't probably happening for decades. The SSE is a very low value proposition. I guess it's not surprising - Scarborough has a history of making poor planning/transit choices.

Miller's solution was a great one - well costed, more stops, easier to expand and it would've made the Sheppard East extension viable.

I hope the people of Scarborough enjoy their extension and won't complain if there's little-no will to build more rapid transit in Scarborough.
 
Coolstar said:
Well can't complain about it now. We should push forward the SSE to avoid additional delays and at least get something built
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I'm not a fan of foot dragging, delays, dithering, etc, but I would still have it switched back now, and I don't think it would be built any later.

Another thing I don't like about all this, is everyone was going along with LRT just fine, it was approved and everything, but when enough selfish politicians went to use the Subway for their needless vote pandering, that was the final debate, a decision had finally been made, now is the time to get on with building transit, we can't go back on this decision etc,
 
syn said:
I believe the opposition has stated that countless times. We don't need two full subway lines to STC when one is overkill.
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That's why the pro-rapid transit faction proposed extending the Eglinton LRT (not a full subway) to STC. But it was shot down.
syn said:
Transfers are a fact of life on transit. I have no problem transferring at Bloor-Yonge to head north to Yonge and Eglinton. That makes perfect sense to me.

Transferring to the RT also makes sense. I'm heading in a completely different direction, and it's a lot faster and more efficient than riding the King or Spadina streetcars. The RT is woefully underappreciated.
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STC to Kennedy riders are going in a south-west direction - so continuing south and west IS the same direction.
syn said:
The solution for those who don't want to transfer is to take the GO Train.
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If the GO train would make it to STC, this would be a good option. But that plan was shot down too. Although to be fair, it was shot down by the Liberals in charge of Metrolinx at the time, and not by the pro-Transit City faction.
syn said:
In any case, I think what's been stated in this thread many times is that an above ground solution for the SSE should be explored. That won't happen since Scarborough was promised underground transit to make them 'first class citizens'.
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It was explored, when the Liberals (Wynne) were in power, by a Liberal (Murray). My assumption is that the plan was not feasible and that is why it was dropped - because I recall TTC saying it wouldn't work.
syn said:
Barring that there should be a realization that the SSE means the Sheppard East and Eglinton East LRT extensions aren't probably happening for decades.
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EELRT I agree. Sheppard, I think, will be started after the next election (in both directions).
syn said:
The SSE is a very low value proposition. I guess it's not surprising - Scarborough has a history of making poor planning/transit choices.
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I agree it's not good value. Neither was Transit City. Quite often in public projects money is wasted due to politicians and obtaining community acceptance. Miller interfered in the planning and engineering just as much as the Liberals did when set the SSE route.
syn said:
Miller's solution was a great one
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🤣🤣🤣🤣
syn said:
Miller's solution was a great one - well costed, more stops, easier to expand and it would've made the Sheppard East extension viable.
I hope the people of Scarborough enjoy their extension and won't complain if there's little-no will to build more rapid transit in Scarborough.
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It was costed, but costs were all wrong. (it was costed with Jane LRT fully on-street. it was costed with Don Mills LRT fully on-street all the way to Pape station).
It couldn't be expanded because critical areas were built on street precluding expansion.
Finch East Bus has more stops than all of Transit City - so I guess that's an even better plan - just to add a few extra buses on it.
 
Shining Tree said:
That's why the pro-rapid transit faction proposed extending the Eglinton LRT (not a full subway) to STC. But it was shot down.
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Well had Rob Ford hadn't proposed an all underground LRT line all the way to Kennedy and maybe had the surface section elevated instead, the project could've gone through.
 
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