[GenerationW]

And I clearly did not say that all. There was no reason to claim Eglinton was a waste when that line has been needed just as long as the DRL.

I love Eglinton. But with the possible exception of the SRT replacement (only because it's crumbling), nothing is needed for local transit as much as the DRL.

 

[GenerationW]

There is no discussion necessary. It just needs to get done without interference from mayors wanting to make a mark.

Funding to perform an EA is in place and public meetings started in April.

Chow could use much better phrasing with her statement. She should just say "meetings have started, the next mayor needs to confirm it's still a priority and let management get it done however they think it should be done".

You're assuming enough people on council are enthusiastic about the DRL, that's it's a done deal, that nothing can stop its progress, that no other project could possibly spring up and delay it further......I think none of those are true.

I realize the DRL is complex, but in 2009 council approved, funded, and completed an EA for Yonge (a project the city has never been gung-ho about) all in the space of less than a year. Even with Ford, I find it hard to understand how we have made so little progress on the DRL since then.

Then there's the issue of funding. Some here have questioned how much of that $15 billion will even be available for the DRL. So the idea that the DRL shouldn't even be discussed in an election campaign doesn't comfort me at all.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I love Eglinton. But with the possible exception of the SRT replacement (only because it's crumbling), nothing is needed for local transit as much as the DRL.

Traffic woes won't end of the DRL. Eglinton and DRL allows people to get around without Yonge...

You're assuming enough people on council are enthusiastic about the DRL, that's it's a done deal, that nothing can stop its progress, that no other project could possibly spring up and delay it further......I think none of those are true.

I realize the DRL is complex, but in 2009 council approved, funded, and completed an EA for Yonge (a project the city has never been gung-ho about) all in the space of less than a year. Even with Ford, I find it hard to understand how we have made so little progress on the DRL since then.

Then there's the issue of funding. Some here have questioned how much of that $15 billion will even be available for the DRL. So the idea that the DRL shouldn't even be discussed in an election campaign doesn't comfort me at all.

So if you know it's complex why are you still banging on council? If the province will fight for the Scarborough subway why not the DRL? Does that make sense to you?

 

[ehlow]

The difference between SmartTrack and the projects you listed is that none of them will come at the cost of canceling the Relief Line.

Tory's SmartTrack plan means canceling the Relief Line. That's my major problem with the proposal (along with it's ridiculous price tag and the Scarborough Subway situation)

I don't believe the province will allow cancelling of the Relief Line by any mayor. We'll have to see what the relief studies say, but in any case it's likely in Metrolinx's hands, not TTC.

Who knows where Tory got his price estimate, but my interpretation is:
GO RER is happening anyways and was a huge promise by Ontario Liberals who now have 4 years and new transit funding.
Tory just wants to link two RER lines, paint the trains red, add them to the RT/subway map, add some stations, and charge regular TTC fare. Good idea in my books.

Agreed and honestly, I wish they would have built the entire thing to Pearson, but Eglinton even now is the best of the LRT's. Many, many cars will be taken off the road and lots of commutes cut. This also helps Yonge Eglinton, Don Mills- Eglinton and Mount Dennis immensely.

Yeah it's fuckin awesome! Should be a huge upgrade to the transit system and a positive change for many communities along it.

Re: Eglinton my point is, we should be building DRL yes, but also other projects as well like Eglinton or GO RER.

 

[rbt]

You're assuming enough people on council are enthusiastic about the DRL, that's it's a done deal, that nothing can stop its progress, that no other project could possibly spring up and delay it further......I think none of those are true.

Yes interference, interruption, or half-baked ideas from the mayors office (or council) can delay the DRL.

At this specific time the DRL is in a good place despite the years of delays and years of upcoming work to be done. Byford and Metrolinx have both expressed strong interest in the project.

If management was actually running TTC priorities, the DRL is at the top of the list for expansion projects.

Then there's the issue of funding. Some here have questioned how much of that $15 billion will even be available for the DRL. So the idea that the DRL shouldn't even be discussed in an election campaign doesn't comfort me at all.

If funding is a concern, Chow seems to be the only one who has stated she would put funding toward the DRL though I think it'll be a huge struggle with SOGR backlog. Funding the DRL isn't really something the city can do alone (again, not a municipal election issue).


Both federal NDP and Liberals have called me for donations. I said I wasn't donating until I they present a national transit strategy. This is my effort to get more funding for transit.

 

[salsa]

a bit condescending don't you think?

Surface subway is ridiculous...oh wait...

No one in London calls this a surface subway. Might as well call the Sky Train or Calgary LRT a surface subway too. Tory is only trying to appease the subway blowhard vote by using that name, and I don't appreciate his playing with words when there's a general public that still thinks an LRT is the same as streetcar thanks to similar misrepresentations.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I don't believe the province will allow cancelling of the Relief Line by any mayor. We'll have to see what the relief studies say, but in any case it's likely in Metrolinx's hands, not TTC.

Who knows where Tory got his price estimate, but my interpretation is:
GO RER is happening anyways and was a huge promise by Ontario Liberals who now have 4 years and new transit funding.
Tory just wants to link two RER lines, paint the trains red, add them to the RT/subway map, add some stations, and charge regular TTC fare. Good idea in my books.



Yeah it's fuckin awesome! Should be a huge upgrade to the transit system and a positive change for many communities along it.

Re: Eglinton my point is, we should be building DRL yes, but also other projects as well like Eglinton or GO RER.

The thing I like the most is more people will be moving to those places, and places like Eglinton Kennedy as well. It will be so much easier to live out there and come down. DRL will allow us to avoid Yonge entirely.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't blame him for playing with words seeing everyone in Toronto seems to think a subway means it has to be tunneled.

I'm certainly not suggesting that a DRL isn't needed but I don't get where people are saying it won't relieve the Danforth line and hence B&Y. Anyone going downtown from Scar would automatically take the Smartrax lines as they would be infinitely faster. Anyone in their right mind would take it over a slow packed bus to a hyper packed subway and a grueling exchange at Yonge.

Let's say even half of the Scar/Tor East users took Smartrax.that would mean a hell of a lot fewer people on the Danforth line easing Y&B.

 

[ehlow]

The thing I like the most is more people will be moving to those places, and places like Eglinton Kennedy as well. It will be so much easier to live out there and come down. DRL will allow us to avoid Yonge entirely.

Yeah, GO RER could make many trips much more attractive by transit and definitely cause development around the stations.

We shouldn't just be looking to relieve Yonge-Bloor (we obviously should be doing that though), but also expand the transit system to cover more trips and more areas. GO RER makes longer distance trips by transit much easier.

If GO RER costs the same fare as TTC, even better.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

i don't blame him for playing with words seeingbut i don't get where people are saying it won't relieve the danforth line and hence b&y.

dtres. The Relief Line will provide the most relief to both Yonge Line and B-Y at a lower cost.

 

[gweed123]

Yeah, GO RER could make many trips much more attractive by transit and definitely cause development around the stations.

We shouldn't just be looking to relieve Yonge-Bloor (we obviously should be doing that though), but also expand the transit system to cover more trips and more areas. GO RER makes longer distance trips by transit much easier.

If GO RER costs the same fare as TTC, even better.

GO RER will also make existing surface transit routes more cost-effective, because there will be more perpendicular routes onto which riders can transfer. Take for example Sheppard East. In order to access rapid transit now, a rider from say Neilson & Sheppard would have to either ride to STC, or ride along Sheppard to Don Mills. A GO RER station at Agincourt would allow that person to get off there instead, thereby opening up a seat for someone boarding at Warden bound for Don Mills, where before that seat wouldn't have been available.

Right now, many bus trips are 30+ minutes long, when in reality they should be at most 15 minutes long, because they should be feeder routes, not long-haul routes (with the exception of BRT and BRT Lite services).

Your point about development around stations is also quite interesting. Historically, the land uses around rail corridors are industrial or commercial, usually pretty low density. This presents some golden redevelopment opportunities around stations. I know the comment was directed mainly towards Toronto, but when I look at the Lakeshore West line through Halton for example, the opportunities there are enormous (the Kitchener line through Kipling North, Malton, and Bramalea has similar potential). There have been a few condos going up adjacent to stations like Port Credit, Clarkson, and Oakville, but stations like Clarkson, Bronte, Appleby, and Burlington have amazing opportunities to create entire districts of TOD around them. And this all by redeveloping underused/unused industrial land. I'm not talking CityPlace-like densities for redevelopment, but seeing Liberty Village-like density shouldn't be out of the question at all (remember, no surrounding residential = no direct NIMBY opposition).

 

[GenerationW]

So if you know it's complex why are you still banging on council? If the province will fight for the Scarborough subway why not the DRL? Does that make sense to you?

Because Council can vote on things and lobby higher levels of governments and show leadership and other useful stuff. Though it must be said that this Council and the last one were unfortunately saddled with mayors who had little interest in the DRL.

Not sure what the province will do about the DRL since not very much about the DRL has made sense to me so far. But at the very least, we should have a much clearer picture of their future plans by this time next year.

Both federal NDP and Liberals have called me for donations. I said I wasn't donating until I they present a national transit strategy. This is my effort to get more funding for transit.

Nice! I'll keep that one in mind.

 

[Solid Snake]

No one in London calls this a surface subway. Might as well call the Sky Train or Calgary LRT a surface subway too. Tory is only trying to appease the subway blowhard vote by using that name, and I don't appreciate his playing with words when there's a general public that still thinks an LRT is the same as streetcar thanks to similar misrepresentations.

In London they call it a subway. In Chicago, the L Train is a subway. What he's proposing is the same. Who cares if he adds the word "surface". It's heavy rail

 

[ehlow]

GO RER will also make existing surface transit routes more cost-effective, because there will be more perpendicular routes onto which riders can transfer. Take for example Sheppard East. In order to access rapid transit now, a rider from say Neilson & Sheppard would have to either ride to STC, or ride along Sheppard to Don Mills. A GO RER station at Agincourt would allow that person to get off there instead, thereby opening up a seat for someone boarding at Warden bound for Don Mills, where before that seat wouldn't have been available.

Right now, many bus trips are 30+ minutes long, when in reality they should be at most 15 minutes long, because they should be feeder routes, not long-haul routes (with the exception of BRT and BRT Lite services).

Your point about development around stations is also quite interesting. Historically, the land uses around rail corridors are industrial or commercial, usually pretty low density. This presents some golden redevelopment opportunities around stations. I know the comment was directed mainly towards Toronto, but when I look at the Lakeshore West line through Halton for example, the opportunities there are enormous (the Kitchener line through Kipling North, Malton, and Bramalea has similar potential). There have been a few condos going up adjacent to stations like Port Credit, Clarkson, and Oakville, but stations like Clarkson, Bronte, Appleby, and Burlington have amazing opportunities to create entire districts of TOD around them. And this all by redeveloping underused/unused industrial land. I'm not talking CityPlace-like densities for redevelopment, but seeing Liberty Village-like density shouldn't be out of the question at all (remember, no surrounding residential = no direct NIMBY opposition).

Exactly, once you have 15 min all day frequencies the areas around GO RER stations become much more valuable for development. I'm honestly extremely excited about the possibilities of GO RER, especially if it's treated as part of the overall transit system (TTC rapid transit). The idea of making long distance travel much easier by transit and a significant expansion of our transit system in less than 10 years is really exciting to me.

There is more and more development of both residential but also office space within walking distance of Union, so it's very plausible that people could live near a GO RER station and work downtown without having to transfer to the subway at all. Although even transferring to the subway is fine.

If there were bus lines from suburban GO RER stations to suburban office parks. You already have more and more people living downtown and working way out of the city in suburban office parks, they usually drive. Say they lived near Union in a condo and worked in Markham at 404/407. They could take GO RER from Union to Unionville (ha), transfer to the highway 7 busway to get to their office. The congestion on our highways makes the transit alternative very attractive for commuting.

If it's 15 min off peak, 5-10 min on peak, then it's not really inaccurate to call it a "subway". It's just a subway with lower frequencies, but higher speed & larger stop spacing.

Re the term "surface subway", we kind of already have that in Toronto: the subway is on the surface in many areas (Davisville, Rosedale, High Park)

 

[dowlingm]

In London they call it a subway. In Chicago, the L Train is a subway. What he's proposing is the same. Who cares if he adds the word "surface". It's heavy rail

Sorry, but no. London does not refer to passenger rail corridors as subways. If you hear a Londoner calling for subways subways subways then what they are calling for is this:
http://www.saveoursubways.org