[Cobra]

The scale may differ, the rationale behind them does not. Contracts are signed and contracts are broken because of political pressure at election time when it is perfectly reasonable and serviceable to go ahead with them. You can't play this game of condemning one and encouraging another and came out as anything but inconsistent.

On that front, you're right. We have to be consistent even if the scale is different. I for one preferred the SRT as LRT merged with Eglinton Crosstown and find the subway+Smarttrack as overkill for Scarborough. The political flip flop on that issue was just as bad even on a different scale and should both still be condemned

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

On that front, you're right. We have to be consistent even if the scale is different. I for one preferred the SRT as LRT merged with Eglinton Crosstown and find the subway+Smarttrack as overkill for Scarborough. The political flip flop on that issue was just as bad even on a different scale and should both still be condemned

And worse, pretty much all the political alternatives at the time are offering the same promises of flip-flopping, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it? But of course condemnation or not, we have to sleep in the bed we've made. Hence my comment on how we should be extracting the maximum benefit from ST and BD extension through better planning (routing, land uses, etc)

AoD

 

[Forgotten]

Where was the Toronto Star when the provincial Liberals wasted sums that were orders of magnitude higher?

I get that newspapers have a political bent to them. But this kind of blatant partisanship has stopped me from reading the Star. Let alone paying for it.

Hey at least it's known where their partisanship lies. As opposed to your on-again off-again racist/not racist support for the SSE. With yesterday's moves, John Tory has shown he's not the racist that NDP partisans accused him of being during the campaign, no?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Have to agree with you there.

Most of them wants convenient access to different parts of the city, hence them using Bloor-Danforth by default. Scarborough-Eglinton Crosstown would connect the city and give them more options and faster access to workplace, shopping and entertainment.

Putting them on a one seat trip to the already crowded downtown isn't a viable solution

That's not true.

From Central Scarborough (Planning District 13), 49% of trip destinations are within Scarborough (including 30% within PD13) . The second biggest destination from PD13 is Downtown Toronto, which accounts for 16% of trips. Trips to midtown account for 3% of trips, to central NY 2% of trips, to Downsview 2% and to eastern NY 2%.

From Scarborough North of 401 (PD16), 48% of trip destinations are within Scarborough (including 33% within PD16). The second biggest destination from PD13 is Downtown Toronto, which accounts for 13% of trips. 3% of trips are to Midtown, 3% are to Central North York, 3% are to Downsview and 4% are to eastern North York.

Other destinations within Toronto are so insignificant that they don't even show up on the charts.

Based on this information, it would be wise to prioritize travel within Scarbrough and then target Scarborough to Downtown travel.

See the slides from Sheppard Transit Expert Panel Meeting, March 2012.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So much is riding on the Relief line recommendations. Will Eglinton East's projections see a large increase, will Yonge North see a large decrease, could ST result in a DRL-LRT? Lots of questions...I'm dying to know what will come of both the TTC and Metrolinx's plans (or a hybrid combo). I have a feeling the TTC's short list may be out in a few weeks, but who knows.

It's scheduled to be out very soon.

 

[BurlOak]

That's not true.

From Central Scarborough (Planning District 13), 49% of trip destinations are within Scarborough (including 30% within PD13) . The second biggest destination from PD13 is Downtown Toronto, which accounts for 16% of trips. Trips to midtown account for 3% of trips, to central NY 2% of trips, to Downsview 2% and to eastern NY 2%.

From Scarborough North of 401 (PD16), 48% of trip destinations are within Scarborough (including 33% within PD16). The second biggest destination from PD13 is Downtown Toronto, which accounts for 13% of trips. 3% of trips are to Midtown, 3% are to Central North York, 3% are to Downsview and 4% are to eastern North York.

Other destinations within Toronto are so insignificant that they don't even show up on the charts.

Based on this information, it would be wise to prioritize travel within Scarbrough and then target Scarborough to Downtown travel.

See the slides from Sheppard Transit Expert Panel Meeting, March 2012.

Not sure if I understand this.

For Central Scarborough, 49+16+3+2+2+2 = 74%. For North Scarborough, 48+13+3+3+3+4 = 74%

Does that mean that 26% of transit riders are going to Markham, Durham, or Etobicoke?

Also, I think the travel within Scarborough can mostly be discounted because there is no way to really improve the trip for someone who goes to a high school 2km down the street.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Not sure if I understand this.

For Central Scarborough, 49+16+3+2+2+2 = 74%. For North Scarborough, 48+13+3+3+3+4 = 74%

Does that mean that 26% of transit riders are going to Markham, Durham, or Etobicoke?

Also, I think the travel within Scarborough can mostly be discounted because there is no way to really improve the trip for someone who goes to a high school 2km down the street.

For Central Scarborough (PD13):
Within Scarborough: 49%
Markham/Whitchurch Stouffville: 4%
Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, Oshawa: 4%
Downtown: 16%
Midtown: 3%
Central NY: 2%
Downsview: 2%
Eastern NY: 2%

The bulk of people are staying within Scarborough or headed downtown. The remaining 20% are heading to various other destinations that are too insignificant to be noteworthy.

The numbers for Scarborough north of 401 or more or less the same.

You can take a look at the document here: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/cc/bgrd/CC20_1_app3_14.pdf

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Also, I think the travel within Scarborough can mostly be discounted because there is no way to really improve the trip for someone who goes to a high school 2km down the street.

Not all of these people are headed 2 km down the street. Planning Districts 13 to 16 cover all of Scarborough. 30% of people within PD13 are staying within PD13. Mind that PD13 is huge, essentially encompassing all of the SRT and Scarborough Subway. 11% are going to PD16 and 8% to PD14/15. There is a lot that we can do to improve travel within these areas, including building more LRT and BRT. Saying there are no way to improve these trips is nonsense.

I can't stress enough how important it is to improve local transit. A disproportionate amount of attention is given to people travelling to downtown, who don't even make up anywhere near half of all users.

 

[Rainforest]

For Central Scarborough (PD13):
Within Scarborough: 49%
Markham/Whitchurch Stouffville: 4%
Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, Oshawa: 4%
Downtown: 16%
Midtown: 3%
Central NY: 2%
Downsview: 2%
Eastern NY: 2%

The bulk of people are staying within Scarborough or headed downtown. The remaining 20% are heading to various other destinations that are too insignificant to be noteworthy.

20% combined is not an insignificant number; and it is conceivable that at least half of them are going somewhere in the rest of Toronto and will benefit from faster long-range transit.

 

[Rainforest]

Not all of these people are headed 2 km down the street. Planning Districts 13 to 16 cover all of Scarborough. 30% of people within PD13 are staying within PD13. Mind that PD13 is huge, essentially encompassing all of the SRT and Scarborough Subway. 11% are going to PD16 and 8% to PD14/15. There is a lot that we can do to improve travel within these areas, including building more LRT and BRT. Saying there are no way to improve these trips is nonsense.

I can't stress enough how important it is to improve local transit. A disproportionate amount of attention is given to people travelling to downtown, who don't even make up anywhere near half of all users.

Local travel can be improved to some extent, by LRT, BRT, or even simply running more buses off-peak. But the benefit for the short-range riders will be less noticeable.

If you slice 25% off a 1-hour trip, the rider saves 15 min. If you slice same 25% off a 15-min trip, the rider saves less than 4 min.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

20% combined is not an insignificant number; and it is conceivable that at least half of them are going somewhere in the rest of Toronto and will benefit from faster long-range transit.

a) where are you getting 20 percent from?
b) if it says they are going downtown, then they are going downtown.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

a) where are you getting 20 percent from?
b) if it says they are going downtown, then they are going downtown.

80% are the percentage of AM travel from Central Scarborough to Scarbrough, Markham, Stouffvile, Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, Oshawa, Downtown, Midtown, Central NY, Downsview or Eastern NY. The remaining 20% are headed to various other miscellaneous destinations that are too insignificant to be noteworthy.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Local travel can be improved to some extent, by LRT, BRT, or even simply running more buses off-peak. But the benefit for the short-range riders will be less noticeable.

If you slice 25% off a 1-hour trip, the rider saves 15 min. If you slice same 25% off a 15-min trip, the rider saves less than 4 min.

That 4 minutes is the difference between going out to get a bag of milk, or deciding it's too inconvenient. Improving local transit is key to creating livable communities.

 

[wopchop]

That 4 minutes is the difference between going out to get a bag of milk, or deciding it's too inconvenient. Improving local transit is key to creating livable communities.

Exactly. If it takes 5-10 minutes with the car, or 15-20 minutes with the bus. The car will win every time. This is literally why everyone in the suburbs drives outside of peak hours.

Many own a vehicle already, so why take transit for such trips if it is going to take so much longer?

 

[nfitz]

Exactly. If it takes 5-10 minutes with the car, or 15-20 minutes with the bus. The car will win every time.

Will it? What do you do next though? Do you have a drink? How much is parking? Is it worth the hassle of driving?