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The reason why the City is going with ahead with the SRT expansion is because their not paying for it


...While progress was achieved this past year with the agreement of the Provincial and Federal governments to provide funding for various transit expansion projects, only the funding announced for the SRT project provided any relief to the base capital program shortfall as the remaining Transit City Plan LRT lines were not previously part of the base or state-of-good-repair capital program.
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Source:TTC Capital Budget for 2010

It's interesting that the Federal and Provincial governments are fully picking up the tab on the SRT, but nothing can say the same for other projects.
 
I don't see how any rational person could support spending so much to KEEP the SRT when you could spend a little bit more and just be rid of the orphan technology by extending the subway to STC, where it belongs. STC is a perfect place for the subway to end, and LRT or buses to radiate north and east.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I don't see how any rational person could support spending so much to KEEP the SRT when you could spend a little bit more and just be rid of the orphan technology by extending the subway to STC, where it belongs. STC is a perfect place for the subway to end, and LRT or buses to radiate north and east.
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I don't think it's the extending the subway is the main problem. Its tearing down the SRT if a subway expansion is built would be costly.

I always wounder about the problem with the snow and the SRT. I can get a high power magnet to pick up something though a piece of wood 2 CM thick. But it has problems with snow 1 CM thick. Has anyone thought it could be a power problem to the magnets, rather than the magnets themselves?
 
One question ... if the LRT has higher maximum speeds than the subway, and presumably better acceleration ... why is the underground section of Eglinton only have an operating speed of 30 km/hr, compared to the current 40 km/hr on the SRT from Kennedy to Scarborough Centre?

Did they goof here, or does that mean the SRT is going to take 33% longer to get from Kennedy to Scarborough Centre if it's converted to LRT?
 
nfitz said:
One question ... if the LRT has higher maximum speeds than the subway, and presumably better acceleration ... why is the underground section of Eglinton only have an operating speed of 30 km/hr, compared to the current 40 km/hr on the SRT from Kennedy to Scarborough Centre?

Did they goof here, or does that mean the SRT is going to take 33% longer to get from Kennedy to Scarborough Centre if it's converted to LRT?
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Speed depends on the station spacing more than the vehicle. It should be the same if it is converted.
 
CodeMonkey said:
I don't think it's the extending the subway is the main problem. Its tearing down the SRT if a subway expansion is built would be costly.

I always wounder about the problem with the snow and the SRT. I can get a high power magnet to pick up something though a piece of wood 2 CM thick. But it has problems with snow 1 CM thick. Has anyone thought it could be a power problem to the magnets, rather than the magnets themselves?
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Since when is demolition a huge expense? It's never been brought up in any argument about SRT vs. subway vs. LRT. Besides it's not like the SRT is in danger of chunks falling off like the Gardiner. Even if demolition of the SRT was expensive, they could do it gradually or defer it. As long as the subway gets built, that would be all that was important. It'd be wonderful to be able to open it one day without any delays with the SRT there until the subway opened on opening day.
 
I always keep asking this question, yet no one seems to answer. How does the JFK AirTrain fare in snowy weather compared to Vancouver SkyTrain and the SRT? And why does the orginal Expo Line track for the SkyTains seems to be better a layout and in better condition than the SRT which seems to be rundown and badly put together?
 
CodeMonkey said:
I always keep asking this question, yet no one seems to answer. How does the JFK AirTrain fare in snowy weather compared to Vancouver SkyTrain and the SRT? And why does the orginal Expo Line track for the SkyTains seems to be better a layout and in better condition than the SRT which seems to be rundown and badly put together?
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From what I've read the the other two have similar issues with snow as well. What helps them is that the winters in those places are no where near as rough as ours.
 
Voltz said:
Speed depends on the station spacing more than the vehicle. It should be the same if it is converted.
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Then why will Eglinton run at the same speed as the BD, when there is only 11 stations (11 journey segments) from Brentcliffe (due north of Pape) to Keele, when there are 15 stations on the BD for the same distance; especially as the SRT has faster acceleration than the subway (and the LRT should match the SRT?) Shouldn't the operating speed be faster than 30 km/hr?

Let's look at it this way. The station spacing for the 11 stations on the 9.5 km from Brentcliffe to Keele averages 860 metres. The station spacing for the 3 stations on the 2.4 km from Ellesmere to McCowan is 800 metres. Yet for that distance the SRT takes 4 minutes averaging 36 km/hr compared to 30 km/hr on Eglinton (and I have to think with that curve between Ellesemere and Midland, and the way it crawls from Scarborough Centre to McCowan, that the SRT isn't exactly at it's best!).

Why is the planned speed for Eglinton much slower than the SRT, when the stations average further apart?

It seems to me the predicted travel time from Brentcliffe to Keele should be closer to 14 minutes than 19 minutes.
 
kEiThZ said:
From what I've read the the other two have similar issues with snow as well. What helps them is that the winters in those places are no where near as rough as ours.
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So why hasn't the power to the magnets been increased to compensate for the problems with snow? This seems like a power distubtion problem to the magnets
 
The city could have chosen a subway extension or 8 monorails to STC and the city would not have paid for any of it...if they had chosen, that is.

The RT travels the distance from STC to Kennedy marginally faster than what other subway lines tend to do over similar distances in no small part due to the two 2km gaps and the two stations where the doors stay open for like 2 seconds (at Ellesmere, the closing chimes sometimes begin literally as the doors are opening). A subway extension to STC would average over 30km/hr and would probably be more like 35km/hr if it ran via Brimley & Lawrence. The bigger time saver would be losing the transfer. Travel times are the bottom line, not vehicle speeds.

Vehicle speeds aren't always a good indication of real travel time...the shorter the trip, the more inconsequential differences in vehicle speed become. Seemingly impressive differences in vehicle speeds can translate into only a few minutes or even seconds of travel time and can be easily eaten up (or doubled) by minor frequency changes. Going from Halifax to Vancouver...yeah, 33% faster vehicles is great. Going from Lawrence East to Kennedy, though, has little effect. The RT's frequent downtime easily averages out the seconds it 'saves' over stretches like this.
 
There be no 2-km segments between Ellesmere and McCowan; the longest segment is only 1.2 km. There are segments up to 1.4 on the run from Brentcliffe to Keele.

Seems to me either they have underestimated the speed of the LRT on Eglinton, or are holding back on the increase in travel times if the SRT is converted to LRT.

Yeah, snow on the SRT is an issue. If the LRT can do the same speed as the Skytrain equipment, then it will be a gain in reliability.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
Vehicle speeds aren't always a good indication of real travel time...the shorter the trip, the more inconsequential differences in vehicle speed become. Seemingly impressive differences in vehicle speeds can translate into only a few minutes or even seconds of travel time and can be easily eaten up (or doubled) by minor frequency changes. Going from Halifax to Vancouver...yeah, 33% faster vehicles is great. Going from Lawrence East to Kennedy, though, has little effect. The RT's frequent downtime easily averages out the seconds it 'saves' over stretches like this.
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The problem with the SRT is that the TTC has incompetent mechanicals who are running a system that was nothing more than abandon research project. So why does it break down with warm weather and the SkyTrain doesn't? Why are their so many gaps between the third rail(power rail) than other ICTS/ART systems? The SkyTrain has problems with snow, but most metro systems in the world have problems with snow, even our subways have problems sometimes with snow yet we seem to fix it. Has anyone admitted that we hated this thing from the very being and would do anything to get rid of it? Including sabotage?
 
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