[Voltz]

This is exactly what I and thousands of other people do every day when commuting in Scarborough. Or taking the bus all the way to Yonge.

I also often take a bus all the way to Kennedy, with the LRT plan I would not have to and be far better off.

I don't agree with all these over the top objections to SRT bus replacement, what would likely happen is many of the bus routes would be extended to Kennedy, running express with dedicated lanes at intersections or where required. Hardly an earth ending inconvenience.

 

[macookie]

I think there could be an awesome compromise...

1. The DRL is built first... on the premise that....
2. The DRL phase 2 extends the line north on pape to through Flemington Park up to the CP rail, use it... over to Ellesmere use it to then proceed to STC. (or some other route to from PAPE to STC)

In the meanwhile ... The SMART tract/ GO RER will intersect DRL at Ellesmere. (People can transfer to GO for fast assess to downtown is achieve), and the Eglinton LRT can be branched after bypassing Kennedy (transfer) Station to go up McCowan, and the other branch to either UTSC and/or Morningside.

Possibly in the future the midtown GO will operate... and can make transfers at Ellesmere to go across Toronto faster bypassing Union.
And... Sheppard LTR can be completed to Morningside...

Then eventually... Scarborough will have awesome local and regional transportation options.

 

[Cobra]

The time quoted wasn't best-case scenario, but average scenario. Often times the delay will be shorter, other times it will be greater).

If there's one thing this city's transit drama has taught us, it's to take quotes with a massive grain of salt

Like I said, many bus routes that move more people than the SRT work fine.)

The SRT is at over capacity as stated by the Star due to lack of vehicles to meet the growing demand. Meaning some people just gave up and used alternatives while the SRT is right there, while for Bus routes, TTC can add buses and Streetcars. It's a poor comparison

The 510 Spadina has greater ridership than the SRT, and Spadina Avenue didn't implode when it was replaced by busses.)

They have many alternatives in that part of the city:
-Line 2
-Line 1
-Streetcar routes and alternative bus routes

again, a poor comparaison

The people who use the Finch West bus, which also moves more people than the SRT, will be dealing with their own slow downs (probably greater in magnitude than the SRT shutdown) as well.)

I respect your assumption about the "greater magnitude" of slowdown between Finch slowing down and SRT shutting down. I know that Finch West has more ridership but as I've addressed earlier, the SRT ridership is stale due to lack of capacity, not because the real demand isn't much higher.

Yonge Line will soon shut

down for an extended period for trackbed construction and to accommodate the Eglinton LRT, and that is the single most used transit line in North America. This is in addition to the recent slow orders that have been in place the past month, which have delayed trips for a greater period of time than what is anticipated for the SRT replacement. If Spadina, Finch, Eglinton, St. Clair and Yonge can deal with it, so can Scarborough. Why of all the infrastructure related delays in this city, is Scarborough the one that we feel we need to bend over backwards to minimize?

Why you so mad? We're still debating aren't we?
If the Yonge line is to be shutdown for 3 consecutive years and replaced by shuttle buses the whole time, that's news to me.
Spadina? Already listed the more convenient alternatives including 2 subway lines.
Finch? They never had a rapid transit line, why did it take that long to implement an express branch? Why no BRT? So because the city and TTC did nothing, they should submit the rest of the city to their neglecting?
Eglinton? Blame Harris for this
St.Clair? Not sure they took it as well as you're implying...as a matter of fact they were probably angrier than those annoying scaberians...
Yonge? 1954 when boring machines didn't exist vs 2016? Really?

Traveling all the way to Danforth is more difficult and longer than taking the bus through the construction disruptions at Leslie, Yonge and Allen..)

I used the subway because St.Clair was a good alternative until the shutdown

There are several travel alternatives existing in Scarborough.

Ok

There is the Sheppard Subway,

That`s good for those north of the 401...not so much for the rest as Sheppard has its own problems too

GO Transit,

Extra charge...I hope I`m not teaching you that many people in those areas can`t afford it...you should have add ''GO to exempt extra charges at STC and Scarborough GO Station''...There I helped you

any one of the many Eglinton/Kingston Rd buses (such as 86 Scarborough), or they can travel to Yonge by bus

Travel to Yonge...Because their times less valuable then the rest. right?

And as someone who traveled from Scarborough to downtown for years, I can tell you that both the Eglinton/Kingston busses (e.g. 198 Rocket), or travelling all the way from east Scarborough to Lawrence or York Mills Station by bus were generally faster options than the SRT (seriously, check it out in Google Maps)

I respect your assessment and your opinion. If everyone in that area felt that way, you and I wouldn`t be debating...right?

 

[Cobra]

how is it any different with eglinton crosstown construction? Cars are down to 1 lane and shared with buses. In the future (say 20 years) if the crosstown were to be shut down for any reason people will say "oh the caos". But then all they need to do is think back when there was no crosstown but only buses along Eglinton. What did passengers do on Yonge when streetcar shut down for subway construction? People need to get a reality check

Not people, council and politicians needs a reality check. Don't you see all I'm doing is pointing blame at the right place?

 

[Cobra]

Excuse me, but before you accuse people of being ridiculous why don't you actually inform yourself instead of making up revisionist history. You should know that the SRT was originally supposed to be a light rail line. It wasn't downtown who decided to impose ICTS technology, it was the province. If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be here discussing about shutting down the SRT in order to convert to light rail.

Let me clarify then:

Downtown, suburban & Rural MPP are responsible for the SRT flawed concept
Downtown City Councillors are responsible for the SRT shameful neglect forcing us to spend billions to replace it

Fair?

Most of us here are critical of the political leadership, not the actual residents.

You're in the minority

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Travel to Yonge...Because their times less valuable then the rest. right?

Have you travelled from east Scarborough to Downtown? I'm telling you that taking the bus to Yonge Street is usually faster than the SRT. Check it out in Google if you don't believe me.

 

[Cobra]

Have you travelled from east Scarborough to Downtown? I'm telling you that taking the bus to Yonge Street is usually faster than the SRT. Check it out in Google if you don't believe me.

Sorry my bad. I was being specific to those heavily relying on the SRT. You're right. That doesn't apply to all of Scarborough

 

[coffey1]

Have you travelled from east Scarborough to Downtown? I'm telling you that taking the bus to Yonge Street is usually faster than the SRT. Check it out in Google if you don't believe me.

Which is why the Sheppard LRT transfer is an epic embarrassment in transit design. But it's OK to build without considering fair integration & convenience because It's only Scarborough..

 

[Steve X]

Well, from 2010 to 2023 at 3% inflation per year= approx. $2.6B range

Yes, I might have used the wrong number but why is TTC quoting the 2023$ instead of present value. I don't see them using the 2019$ for the original project oppose to the 1.8B for 2010$.

Anyways, none of this makes sense. If the province contribute $1.8B in 2010$, then they should be contributing the inflated cost in 2023$, not $1.8B in 2023$. Then $2.9B figure is just thrown out there to scare away people and avoid another discussion. Also, how on earth does it make sense that a surface/elevated LRT cost almost the same as the subway.

 

[ssiguy2]

Whatever you think of the SRT it is NOT over capacity.

The only reason there is a problem with it is because Toronto let it rot for 40 years. Vancouver's SkyTrain with the new MK111 cars {yes Toronto your system is so old that they no longer make MK11} and extended stations of 108 meters has capacity of 27,000 pphpd. The new trains are based on the Bombardier Innovia system like the new Toronto subway cars. The trains can be one long articulated one just like the new Red Rockets.

I don't suppose anyone in Toronto has bothered to even make a phone call to see if the new MK111 can handle the turn near Elesmere? Also this idea of shutting down the system for 3 years to redo the track is absolute crap. Vancouver trains come every 90 seconds and the system SkyTrain system has 7X the ridership of the SRT yet Vancouver has managed to replace the entire track over the years with no complete shutdown. It was done at night, on weekends, and in the summer piece by piece using only one track.

Of course keeping the SkyTrain and extending it means only an expanded garage but no requirement of a new maintenance/garage centre and SkyTrain {even without automation} is cheaper to run than a subway due to much lower electrical use per passenger.

Whether you love the SkyTrain technology or hate it, don't make up fantasy scenarios that have no basis in fact.

 

[kEiThZ]

This debate is exactly why I wanted something like Smart Track. We need a paradigm shift. Right now. All of Eastern and Central Scarborough think of the subway as the only way to access downtown. And since for many, STC/McCowan is the initial boarding point, the transfer at Kennedy seems ridiculous, unnecessary and needlessly time consuming. The unreliability, overcrowding and generally rickety nature of the SRT has only poisoned the well against LRT further. LRT boosters. You need to understand this mentality.

The way around the above is two fold. Pitch the SLRT-Eglinton as a one-seat ride to Yonge for most of Central and Eastern Scarborough (bring back the commitment to take SLRT to Malvern Town which McGuinty cut. And seriously invest in suburban rail. Not the ridiculous GO RER at double digit fares. Something like Smart Track. Decent frequency. Slight premium to the TTC.

When the above happens and the Bloor-Danforth subway just isn't seen as the only line into the core for Central and Eastern Scarborough, the debate will change entirely. But if the subway is canned for a truncated LRT line and no real alternative suburban rail, everyone should expect the bitterness over the transfer to continue, as tens of thousands of riders continue to make that transfer daily.

I also sincerely hope the planners learn the lesson and start planning a Sheppard conversion to LRT. Much easier to sell without the transfer.

 

[coffey1]

Whatever you think of the SRT it is NOT over capacity.

The only reason there is a problem with it is because Toronto let it rot for 40 years. Vancouver's SkyTrain with the new MK111 cars {yes Toronto your system is so old that they no longer make MK11} and extended stations of 108 meters has capacity of 27,000 pphpd. The new trains are based on the Bombardier Innovia system like the new Toronto subway cars. The trains can be one long articulated one just like the new Red Rockets.

I don't suppose anyone in Toronto has bothered to even make a phone call to see if the new MK111 can handle the turn near Elesmere? Also this idea of shutting down the system for 3 years to redo the track is absolute crap. Vancouver trains come every 90 seconds and the system SkyTrain system has 7X the ridership of the SRT yet Vancouver has managed to replace the entire track over the years with no complete shutdown. It was done at night, on weekends, and in the summer piece by piece using only one track.

Of course keeping the SkyTrain and extending it means only an expanded garage but no requirement of a new maintenance/garage centre and SkyTrain {even without automation} is cheaper to run than a subway due to much lower electrical use per passenger.

Whether you love the SkyTrain technology or hate it, don't make up fantasy scenarios that have no basis in fact.

I get what you are saying. It's the right thing to do instead of LRT. If those are the only options.

But ridership really isnt he issue with the SRT. Aside from people refusing to use it. Route alignment (which obviously wont be improved with the current subway plan as no stop will be added) & a transfer before a Toronto "Growth Hub".

For these reason I support an above ground subway extension for and actual improvement to the line

 

[Steve X]

The LRT has double the capacity of the current SRT. 3-car LRV trains hold more people than the current 4-car Mk I trains. Plus they can run at a much closer headway like 2 min oppose to the current 5 min headway. They can even built the LRT for 4-car LRV trains if they want. SkyTrain and LRT holds similar amount of riders.

 

[44 North]

The LRT has double the capacity of the current SRT. 3-car LRV trains hold more people than the current 4-car Mk I trains. Plus they can run at a much closer headway like 2 min oppose to the current 5 min headway. They can even built the LRT for 4-car LRV trains if they want. SkyTrain and LRT holds similar amount of riders.

I'm not sure how true that is. Skytrain (or any modern light metro rolling stock) should carry more than the Flexity Freedom LRVs with the same train length. Since they're not built with crash standards for roadway operation, these vehicles are significantly lighter in weight (one of the reasons why a conversion for standard LRVs requires a complete guideway rebuild, but a conversion to light metro rolling stock doesn't). This reduced weight means higher acceleration. And depending on how the cars are designed for consists (e.g as an open gangway), this could bump up the capacity even more vs the Flexity Freedom.

 

[Rainforest]

It would be great to get the cost estimates for a) the surface subway route; b) the Brimley tunneled subway route.

If the surface route is much cheaper than the tunneled one, it should be selected. The remaining problem is the SRT shutdown for the construction period. That can be partly mitigated by building the Eglinton East LRT prior to the SRT shutdown.

If the surface route is not much cheaper, then perhaps the Brimley tunneled route is somewhat cheaper than the McCowan route. The Brimley route would be about 300 m shorter, and would cross Highland Creek at a different location thus avoiding some of the difficulties.