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Why not just go back to the plan to use the Mk II cars? Is that unfeasible? How long was the shutdown of the SRT for that? I saw different amounts of time, 8 months or 3 years...which one is accurate? Surely, it can't take 3 years to rebuild the tunnels or whatever where they need to? And surely it's the cheapest option since it involves the least amount of change?
 
Steve X said:
Yes, I might have used the wrong number but why is TTC quoting the 2023$ instead of present value. I don't see them using the 2019$ for the original project oppose to the 1.8B for 2010$.

Anyways, none of this makes sense. If the province contribute $1.8B in 2010$, then they should be contributing the inflated cost in 2023$, not $1.8B in 2023$. Then $2.9B figure is just thrown out there to scare away people and avoid another discussion. Also, how on earth does it make sense that a surface/elevated LRT cost almost the same as the subway.
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good points. There is no way the 2 should cost the same. Thats the thing with numbers being thrown around whether $ to build transit or passenger projection use of the system - its alway wrong and #'s are distorted to satisfy the desired transit
 
^ Just to let you know how badly Toronto has allowed the SRT to rot, they no longer make MK11 trains. All the SkyTrain cars are now Innovia designed based which is the same design as the new Red Rockets.

They shouldn't have to shut down the SRT at all if they decided to actually get their acts together. Vancouver redid all it's track and station renewals on it's 48km of track with trains running every 180 seconds using one track on a line that carries 7X the passengers as the SRT. This is just City Hall and the TTC trying to make excuses as to why the line has to be completely replaced. For the money they are going to spend on this 6km subway, they could redo the tracks, expand the stations, buy a whole new fleet of SkyTrain MK111 cars and have the line follow the current Stoufville corridor to downtown. The people in Scarborough would get downtown in half the time with no need to transfer.
 
ssiguy2 said:
^ Just to let you know how badly Toronto has allowed the SRT to rot, they no longer make MK11 trains. All the SkyTrain cars are now Innovia designed based which is the same design as the new Red Rockets.

They shouldn't have to shut down the SRT at all if they decided to actually get their acts together. Vancouver redid all it's track and station renewals on it's 48km of track with trains running every 180 seconds using one track on a line that carries 7X the passengers as the SRT. This is just City Hall and the TTC trying to make excuses as to why the line has to be completely replaced. For the money they are going to spend on this 6km subway, they could redo the tracks, expand the stations, buy a whole new fleet of SkyTrain MK111 cars and have the line follow the current Stoufville corridor to downtown. The people in Scarborough would get downtown in half the time with no need to transfer.
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Could you please use the proper terms Mk II and Mk III.

There have never been marks eleven and one-hundred eleven.

It's a pet peeve of mine and really grates on me. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_III
 
York region is starting a media marketing campaign for the Richmond Hill subway to control the message of the average Joe and pressure Politicians. The exact opposite of how Toronto markets Scarborough.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ng-pr-push-for-extension-of-yonge-subway.html

The only PR Toronto did for Scarborough was to fight to keep SCC on a separate technology and add a transfer on Sheppard. Instead of looking for a better plan and lobbying Politician for DRL funds. They attacked within & continue to.
 
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At this point, only two options make sense to me:

1) Keep the RT, upgrade to Skytrain specs (as much as possible, with minimum shutdowns). Sure LRT is better, but it's not that much better that it's worth replacing the existing line for billions. If capacity is an issue, you build more lines, expanding the network, not funneling more people down the same route.
2) Continue with the BD subway extension, but include the Lawrence stop (and cut the Lawrence & Ellesmere Smartrack stops to save $). Tory can't have it both ways. If he thinks the SSE is so important, politically and for the network, he has to give a little on his Smartrack plan. A one stop, $4b extension is madness, and would make the Sheppard stubway look like brilliant decision in comparison.
 
RyanM12 said:
At this point, only two options make sense to me:

1) Keep the RT, upgrade to Skytrain specs (as much as possible, with minimum shutdowns). Sure LRT is better, but it's not that much better that it's worth replacing the existing line for billions. If capacity is an issue, you build more lines, expanding the network, not funneling more people down the same route.
2) Continue with the BD subway extension, but include the Lawrence stop (and cut the Lawrence & Ellesmere Smartrack stops to save $). Tory can't have it both ways. If he thinks the SSE is so important, politically and for the network, he has to give a little on his Smartrack plan. A one stop, $4b extension is madness, and would make the Sheppard stubway look like brilliant decision in comparison.
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3)A surface subway - Makes far more sense than a surface LRT if we are shutting down the RT. Atleast give Scarborough Center a better future
 
TheTigerMaster said:
By time Mk. 111 is out, we'll have flying trains and hover streetcars
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Very true and funny you should mention it because I saw a picture of the new hovering streetcars just the other day.

That was my way of saying that the Mk 111 trains are already in use. They have begun operation recently in Kuala Lumpur's new SkyTrain extension and Vancouver has already received some of it's new Mk 111 trains.

The best option is still the cheapest.....extend the SkyTrain to downtown from STC or Centennial and buy a new fleet. The people in Scarborough will get downtown a lot faster than a BD extension and can still use the BD with the connecting station at Kennedy if they need to.
 
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/com...apid-transit-network-for-scarborough-now.html

Its unfortunate that these morons can propose a surface subway on the same alignment as the LRT. All the befits and more than their beloved transfer plan. Relentless & they really refuse to get the memo. Ainsle just wanting to make sure his ward get the Crosstown extension which will be a good line. But he doenst speak for the areas of Sheppard and SCC. And like Matlow he refuse to respect the people wishes that Segregated City is not wanted. Find a better plan

We get it the one stop underground is not good value. That doesn't mean the only option is Transfer City.

Cut the cut the crap with the transfer LRT PR campaign
 
Paul Ainslie was for the LRT project (SRT replacement/extension) and against the subway long before the Crosstown East LRT/SMLRT was revived. He's the only one who stuck to that principle.

You're reaching, coffey1. And calling Matlow and Ainslie "morons" adds nothing to the debate.
 
ShonTron said:
Paul Ainslie was for the LRT project (SRT replacement/extension) and against the subway long before the Crosstown East LRT/SMLRT was revived. He's the only one who stuck to that principle.

You're reaching, coffey1. And calling Matlow and Ainslie "morons" adds nothing to the debate.
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Fully aware of Ainsle's long gunning stance on the LRT. He was against the subway because the only hope he had to get his riding LRT was if we started building an LRT network. He doesn't give a crap about the piss poor connections in the other areas

They are disrespectful morons that refuse to acknowledge the issues with the Sheppard and SLRT lines & the anger of the people in these areas. To be carrying on with this same plan that has been rejected be the people is absurd. There are other options and this doesn't help. Except it help Matlow & downtown co. save money & helps justify the case for a Crosstown LRT to Guildwood (which I like BTW)

Sorry not a reach at all.
 
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