[OneCity]

An interesting comment from someone who named themselves the same as Karen Stintz's aborted OneCity plan

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The nickname has to do with wanting to see the City building bridges, building extensively and sharing similar values one day. As for the OneCity plan itself there are a few aspects which are not my preference but id have zero issue at all if they moved forward to fund and construct all the lines within.

I do have a major issue with the same outside Politicians, associated special interest groups, and yes media continuing to drag this SSE debate any further. This massive suburb of nearly 700,000 people deserves a better voice that represents them and no person in the entire City should need to endure another polarizing election to get the message that these people overall are not being fairly represented by those mentioned above.

Its beyond time for serious investment action in Scarborough and thru-out the entire City. The SSE and Eglinton LRT extension will be a great start. As far as these lines are concerned all we should be looking to advocate ways to improve them, get moving forward, and finally put a stop to this regurgitated LRT vs. Subway nonsense.

 

[pstogios]

downtown political transit special interest group

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BS Politics
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Thank god we have the majority of Politicians listening to the people and standing up for Scarborough Centre.

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outside Politicians, associated special interest groups, and yes media continuing to drag this SSE debate any further.
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LRT vs. Subway nonsense.

I knew you couldn't resist the "us-vs-them", "everyone Hates Scarborough", "downtown elites are all against Scarborough" talk for long, Coffey.

Of course nowhere in your rant did you talk about the fundamentals of the issue which is that the density of the population of Scarborough is so distributed that it doesn't justify a subway. THATS why people like the Toronto Star want the facts to come out, and I for one am thankful SOMEONE is speaking out against the wasteful spending of transit money in this city.

But of course you don't want to talk about that, because in the face of the fact that subway isn't justified in Scarborough because of its low density you would lose the argument. So you're back to resorting to the fear-mongering and hatred that you were banned for spouting in this forum in the first place.

Nobody is against Scarborough. Get it through your head.

We are against wasteful spending of scarce and precious transit dollars no matter where it occurs in the the city.

But you refuse to listen to that because your heart is so full of hatred.

 

[OneCity]

I knew you couldn't resist the "us-vs-them", "everyone Hates Scarborough", "downtown elites are all against Scarborough" talk for long, Coffey.

Of course nowhere in your rant did you talk about the fundamentals of the issue which is that the density of the population of Scarborough is so distributed that it doesn't justify a subway. THATS why people like the Toronto Star want the facts to come out, and I for one am thankful SOMEONE is speaking out against the wasteful spending of transit money in this city.

But of course you don't want to talk about that, because in the face of the fact that subway isn't justified in Scarborough because of its low density you would lose the argument. So you're back to resorting to the fear-mongering and hatred that you were banned for spouting in this forum in the first place.

Nobody is against Scarborough. Get it through your head.

We are against wasteful spending of scarce and precious transit dollars no matter where it occurs in the the city.

But you refuse to listen to that because your heart is so full of hatred.

Again make your point without the personal attack. I truly don't hate anyone at all. I am frustrated by the Politics in this City and Province, frustrated that we have to have a blanket technology debate to address the transit needs in Scarborough. But sorry no hate.

Scarborough Center is not low density. Actually there is more low density surrounding the majority of the existing subway locations in this City. We are talking about Scarborugh Centre. Not a High Park, York Mills, Bessarian, Donlands or Vaughan Metro or the many, many other low rise stops. We are talking about the City Centre of a Toronto suburb of 700,000 that is not connected to its main transit infrastructure of its own City.

Its beyond justified. Maybe the route and lack of stops is not justified, but that's about it and that hasn't been what the fight is about.

Im not even a fan of the one stop route or location if you actually read my posts. But at this point ill take it as I know it solves one major problem in the bigger picture, and it is more of a starting point than a finish line as some try to make it out. We need to move forward.

You can continue to call names ("paranoia"....), use exaggerations to distort or discredit my views, but you cant ignore that we keep seeing the same polarizing election every 4 years that isn't going away and certainly doesn't align with a certain media message being portrayed. So maybe, just maybe its not that crazy there are tons of voices not being listened to or discussed in a fair manner in this City.

And If anything it's love not hate. I want to see a united City, bridges built, and a sufficient capital funding plan to cover not only todays needs throughout but future needs so the next generation in this City does not have to replay the Politics of today.

 

[WislaHD]

Scarborough has a high enough population for rapid transit. It is however not dense enough for an underground subway on it's own right.

Therefore, it would need to somehow have feeder bus routes connecting to a rapid transit - that should be above-ground in the first place - in order to justify rapid transit. However, Scarborough's road network is terrible for feeder bus routes around Scarborough Town Centre - which we must connect to rapid transit because screw the rest of Scarborough's needs I guess?

The issue was never Scarborough, it was always Scarborough Town Centre.

Ironically, everything could be solved by a DRL Long to Finch, and most of Scarborough could have an easy feeder-route connection on any of Scarborough's east-west arterials to Don Mills, and then a super fast and direct route to the heart of downtown. But no, instead we are going to force all of Scarborough into a forced crappy feeder-connection to STC only for them to endure a longer subway commute on Danforth, before finally meeting the laughibly over-capacity interchange at Bloor-Yonge.

 

[OneCity]

Scarborough has a high enough population for rapid transit. It is however not dense enough for an underground subway on it's own right.

Therefore, it would need to somehow have feeder bus routes connecting to a rapid transit - that should be above-ground in the first place - in order to justify rapid transit. However, Scarborough's road network is terrible for feeder bus routes around Scarborough Town Centre - which we must connect to rapid transit because screw the rest of Scarborough's needs I guess?

The issue was never Scarborough, it was always Scarborough Town Centre.

Ironically, everything could be solved by a DRL Long to Finch, and most of Scarborough could have an easy feeder-route connection on any of Scarborough's east-west arterials to Don Mills, and then a super fast and direct route to the heart of downtown. But no, instead we are going to force all of Scarborough into a forced crappy feeder-connection to STC only for them to endure a longer subway commute on Danforth, before finally meeting the laughibly over-capacity interchange at Bloor-Yonge.

I understand your argument you try to make. But obviously disagree.

While few parts of Scarborough and the existing commuters may benefit from the DRL, Scarborough doesn't receive much the benefit that a subway brings. Scarborough Centre's future is a big issue here and will not be very attractive compared to Islington/Kipling, North York Center, and then Don Mills and Sheppard. Integrating our largest suburb on the same technology as the rest of the City is very important.

There are three main issues which all need to be addressed for Scarborough. 1. Need for a better connection to the City 2. Need for better local transit, 3. Respectful design based on what exists to attract investment to the City Centre

We can cut corners out because other areas of the City can find way to say its "not necessary" But Scarborough is fully aware of the same unnecessary system that has was built in many other area throughout the City and now creeping into the 905. And you ask these people to turn a blind eye as to why investment is so low compared to these other areas.

Our Politics are reflecting this.

 

[Cobra]

Just wanted to point out that STC Subway had the ridership for subway when it was the 3 stop plan. When Tory removed Sheppard and Lawrence while adding Smartrack, the ridership dropped, (which is normal without Sheppard-McCowan)

That being said, I'm still of the opinion that elevating the line to STC should have been the preferred choice. This underground fetish in Toronto must stop.

There's no in between in this damn city. It's either at grade through traffic lights (Transit City) or underground. Elevated rapid transit or/and underpass at major intersection being thrown out is why we're in this mess

 

[muller877]

Again make your point without the personal attack. I truly don't hate anyone at all. I am frustrated by the Politics in this City and Province, frustrated that we have to have a blanket technology debate to address the transit needs in Scarborough. But sorry no hate.

Scarborough Center is not low density. Actually there is more low density surrounding the majority of the existing subway locations in this City. We are talking about Scarborugh Centre. Not a High Park, York Mills, Bessarian, Donlands or Vaughan Metro or the many, many other low rise stops. We are talking about the City Centre of a Toronto suburb of 700,000 that is not connected to its main transit infrastructure of its own City..

There are huge areas of the city without access to high order transit. Scarborough south of the 401 is NOT one of them. There is the SRT. There are lots of GO Train stops. They are accessible by high order transit...just not the one you like.

But linking SCC to an area of 700,000 is not reasonable. Each area of Scarborough needs to be served...not just one block. Look north and south and east to see the truly needy transit deserts. SCC has 10,000 residents and 20,000 workers. And quite a few of the workers drive since they do not live in Toronto but areas east that are not and will not be served by any subway. Even if you say this will serve 50,000 people you are stretching it.

Docklands RT in the UK is similar to SRT. But look at the density along its stops compared to SCC. And it is minutes away from the core of London compared to SCC. A LRT or subway or replacement SRT will serve the density fairly well. The long distance trips you want are ideally served by rail. A 1 or 3 stop subway is not the only transit need of Scarborough.

You are trying to compare to VMC. At least they are trying. They have the property owners on side and they have all agreed to a master plan to bring commercial to the site. Plus condos. Plus dense retail. They have built the BRT that can move people across the site. They have agreed that pedestrians don't have to walk across vast swaths of parking lots to get to their offices. And they are succeeding with KPMG, PwC, Harley, etc. With the building of the PwC building next year they are 1/2 way there to SCC's 4 commercial buildings (3 Telus buildings and one government building).

 

[OneCity]

Just wanted to point out that STC Subway had the ridership for subway when it was the 3 stop plan. When Tory removed Sheppard and Lawrence while adding Smartrack, the ridership dropped, (which is normal without Sheppard-McCowan)

That being said, I'm still of the opinion that elevating the line to STC should have been the preferred choice. This underground fetish in Toronto must stop.

There's no in between in this damn city. It's either at grade through traffic lights (Transit City) or underground. Elevated rapid transit or/and underpass at major intersection being thrown out is why we're in this mess

I fully agree with you. But Id be more shocked if the SSE is buold it wont be extended as a loop to Sheppard in phase 2. Certainly seems to be moving that way

 

[sixrings]

I fully agree with you. But Id be more shocked if the SSE is buold it wont be extended as a loop to Sheppard in phase 2. Certainly seems to be moving that way

you'll be a senior and or dead before you see that loop connected... I was in my early 20's when Sheppard opened seemingly forever ago. But I guess its worth the battle for Subway, so your children (which i am sure you do not have yet) or grand children don't feel like second class citizens.

 

[OneCity]

you'll be a senior and or dead before you see that loop connected... I was in my early 20's when Sheppard opened seemingly forever ago. But I guess its worth the battle for Subway, so your children (which i am sure you do not have yet) or grand children don't feel like second class citizens.

It's not Scarborough'd fault we are going backwards to lay the proper foundation. I'll be happy to be dead and knowing the next generation has a great connection to it City and a good local network.

The SLRT is really over rated as its shortcomings In stop locations and transfer prior to STC negate much of the benefit of the extension. A subway could basically do a similar path and be much more effective.

 

[OneCity]

You are trying to compare to VMC. At least they are trying. They have the property owners on side and they have all agreed to a master plan to bring commercial to the site. Plus condos. Plus dense retail. They have built the BRT that can move people across the site. They have agreed that pedestrians don't have to walk across vast swaths of parking lots to get to their offices. And they are succeeding with KPMG, PwC, Harley, etc. With the building of the PwC building next year they are 1/2 way there to SCC's 4 commercial buildings (3 Telus buildings and one government building).

That's pretty much what Scarborough is fighting for. Those investors wouldn't be in Vaughan if it wasn't the high level of transit infrastructure to invest around.

 

[WislaHD]

That's pretty much what Scarborough is fighting for. Those investors wouldn't be in Vaughan if it wasn't the high level of transit infrastructure to invest around.

Those investors are in Scarborough though.

Just not at STC, because STC is generally a terrible location.

Look at how much attention the Eglinton corridor is getting in Scarborough!

 

[Cobra]

That's pretty much what Scarborough is fighting for. Those investors wouldn't be in Vaughan if it wasn't the high level of transit infrastructure to invest around.

I'd add Richmond Hill to that list

 

[Cobra]

Just not at STC, because STC is generally a terrible location.

And neglect has nothing to do with it? Keesmaat must be the first city planner looking at STC since Scarborough joined Toronto. She pointed out all of STC flaws and gave a preview of solutions to make it a desirable location.

Scarborough is Toronto, when something doen't work, you FIX IT, not just call it "terrible". Brooklyn, Bronx and Harlem used to be "terrible" until they got a look at and now they are gentrifying and improving.

Sorry to take your comment so negatively, but just sitting and saying STC is a terrible location is counter-productive.

Look at how much attention the Eglinton corridor is getting in Scarborough!

And the Crosstown has nothing to do with it?

 

[sixrings]

Just move STC to the TTC parking lots at Kennedy and Eglinton and be done with it. Then the area would have a GO stop, Subway Stop, and a LRT. I cant imagine it would cost 3 billion to build a mall, and some offices. (Yorkdales latest expansion cost 331 million)