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I will agree with anyone who wants cut and cover/elevated for their lines. The problem is the majority will not agree. For instance I was ok with the ALLEN expressway being shut down to facilitate the Eglinton crosstown getting finished quicker and cheaper. BTW I use the ALLEN everyday. But when people found out that was the design plan they freaked out and all of a sudden they were finding more costly ways to keep the Allen open during construction. So just because we agree with Cobra doesnt mean that it will get done. The same arguments about how why did Vaughan get buried will resurface under a attack on scarborough residents campaign.
 
Cobra said:
They are getting what they want. The "how" should be left to experts. NYMBY are everywhere, even along Pape Avenue. The city has to stop caving to them
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the city caved also by giving Leslie a stop at Eglinton. Im just skeptical that anyone has the balls to actually not cave. As long as one person complains then the caving begins.
 
Hey on the bright side, they still haven't released that report. Guess it's taking rather long to write...

Honestly, they should just ask MTR to come and build that extension with only basic parameters.

AoD
 
WislaHD said:
People still work downtown though, regardless where they do their shopping and access their amenities.

Distance to work is an important deciding factor for deciding where to live. STC still may as well be Mississauga for someone who works downtown, with or without subway.

The other thing is that STC doesn't exist in a bubble. Yes, we could do something maybe about it (that is a tall order of itself, fixing STC's sprawl), but the issue is incentive. There are locations in the city (even within Scarborough) that are much more appropriate for "sprawl-repair" and revitalization than STC, and they are also more attractive for people to move to, closer to downtown core, and more attractive for investors and developers.

We get hung over STC because it is supposedly the 'capital' of Scarborough, but if we detached emotion from it, it compares fairly poorly to other locations across Toronto that we could focus our investment in.
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There are merits to what you said but by transit, STC (39 minutes to Bloor-Yonge) takes 7 minutes longer from Bloor-Yonge than Fairview Mall (32 minutes) area (which is thriving). How much of those 7 minutes can you says is the fault of that crazy transfer at Kennedy Station?

That's why I don't buy the "distance" factor. Don Mills/Sheppard is more desirable than STC do to the way it was planned while having the 404-401 + Sheppard Line. STC only has the 401 and a rundown SRT. Safe to assume that proper planning and transit will help STC as well.
 
Our only hope is that a 1 stop subway becomes too heavy to defend politically forcing the city to change their construction method to bring costs down. A good compromise could be cut and cover or/and elevation and in exchange they add Lawrence back at lower cost.

Once that thing hits $5B (and it will), for only 1 stop, good luck selling that politically to the rest of the city, even within Scarborough.

I'm of the opinion that the city usually didn't care about that when Queen's Park was paying 100% of the bill, but now that Toronto itself needs to pay with tax increases making them more accountable to taxpayers, it puts them in a situation where they actually must make the effort to bring the costs down
 
Cobra said:
How much of those 7 minutes can you says is the fault of that crazy transfer at Kennedy Station?
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The 7 minutes comes from the transfer, and from three stops in between STC and Kennedy which hardly anyone uses (and one of them is going to be built for RER).
 
NIMBYism and arm chair City planners are the issue here.

We all have opinions on what should be done, and what should not be done. But can anyone back it up?

Let's say, the city decided to do what the EA allowed and not take into account public opinions. They listened to developers when they would say where they would densify. I have no doubt that they would use the most cost effective method.

Alas, they need to be elected every few years and must appease the vvoting public.
 
micheal_can said:
NIMBYism and arm chair City planners are the issue here.

We all have opinions on what should be done, and what should not be done. But can anyone back it up?

Let's say, the city decided to do what the EA allowed and not take into account public opinions. They listened to developers when they would say where they would densify. I have no doubt that they would use the most cost effective method.

Alas, they need to be elected every few years and must appease the vvoting public.
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Check the Metrolinx report earlier in this thread - refitting the SRT alignment was actually costed out. In the meantime, we can't even eek out a final report on the chosen alignment and the cost at this point.

AoD
 
Cobra said:
The problem is no one wants the SRT to be shutdown...and I kind of understand why
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Which makes the current debate even more ridiculous. We are comparing and debating technologies under completely separate criteria. If the SRT shutdown is off the table, our local Politicians have to be clear because they are allowing the misleading debate which compares plans with completely different goals to continue. This doesn't make any sense.

I understand the massive impact of shutting down the SRT and it could be chaotic but Im all for shutting it down if connecting the subway is implemented in manner to minimize down time, adding stops and achieving far greater savings as its certainly for the greater good of connecting Scarborough Centre,. But the debate between 7 stop LRT and one stop subway is nonsense.

Whenever the report is finally complete and released it will hopefully provide clarity on this item as we had intended to retain a new consultant to investigate this RT corridor. If the McCowan corridor is carried forward I wouldn't be shocked to see some language in the report regarding the shutdown impact as support for the "recommendation". And we will hopefully see some numbers attached which can provide a far more intelligent debate over technology.
 
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One big problem (among many) with the SRT corridor is that Go Transit is building a station at Lawrence East. A subway there would have to tunnel under it, pass in between the station and Lawrence Avenue, or replace the RER station with a subway station that's built around two railway tracks. None of those seem likely to happen.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I totally do not get why we need a deep tunnel for this line - it's not downtown and you aren't really dealing with complex interchange stations or massive amount of buried utilities (or even nodes of super high density along the way).
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Even with a deep tunnel, the same people who fought for the subway also want nothing to do with it.


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salsa said:
Even with a deep tunnel, the same people who fought for the subway also want nothing to do with it.
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"I want things, but I don't want to have to sacrifice anything for those things. Please find someone else to pay for my things." - Typical voter

This isn't anything new. It happened with the first DRL iteration, the Sheppard Subway and the Spadina extension. It's happening with the SSE, it'll happen with the DRL and Finch West and Sheppard East and every other transit project in this city.
 
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