Cobra
Senior Member
They easily represent a minority, however, the city must stop listening to them
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They easily represent a minority, however, the city must stop listening to them
OneCity
Senior Member
To be honest. They raised some decent points.
Just because you dont want a woodlot park torn apart or houses torn torn when they dont have to be doesnt make you anti subway. These people are doing a decent job involving the community to pressure the TTC not to hack and take the easy way out. Taking out the wooded park was very unnecessary
I do agree if houses need to be removed, or cut and cover provides substantial savings our Politicians have to draw the line and push forward. The next generation will never care about the few minor casualties or temporary disruption. Obviously community organizations should only hold a small weight in planning.
It seems to be a fun thing to do around here at times to act as though this is a Scarborough only thing. Lets not be Holier than thou...NYMBYISM is everywhere in this City. Its the job of council to decide what is reasonable and what is just the standard anti-progress that happens in every neighborhood of the City.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Pressure the TTC not to be hacks, or raise the cost further and delay the project even more?
AoD
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
These NIMBYs raise the cost of these projects, diverting badly needed transit funds from other issues. A few thousand NIMBYs should not be permitted to stand in the way of transit progress that'll serve tens of millions long after they're dead. Accommodations should be made where possible, but I remain totally opposed to significantly increasing project costs to make temporary construction a little easier to deal with.
salsa
Senior Member
I agree about the woodlot, but the bulk of their whining was about a hole in the ground and a bunch of dump trucks trundling on McCowan Rd. And yet the local councillor listens to them as if they should be taken seriously.
OneCity
Senior Member
Agree
But if we are going with the costly McCowan corridor than the proposal submitted by this group has alot of merit. Again not my preference but if this corridor is chosen the proposal brings some great details to light.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The construction will be there for nearly a decade. If they don't like it, then they should move. Harsh? Yes. But that's the reality of living in a big city. I'm sure there are people who'd gladly live in their house and deal with the construction.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Jusst imagine if there was a law that if you request something that differs from the original design that the additional cost must be borne by those that desire those changes. In other word, your tax bill goees higher if you are a NIMBY
OneCity
Senior Member
LOL. The costs could be shared upon all the Politicians constituents when he/she makes the change. That way we'll see the true support, not just the vocal minority NIMBY's getting all the attention.
And that way we'll also see more engagement from the public to hold our Councillors accountable which is the sad reality that isnt the norm
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crs1026
Superstar
It's good when residents raise a stink about things that impact them. That starts a dialogue that can make lots of good things happen. But it doesn't mean there is a solution for everything.
Here's an old Toronto Star article on expropriation. As it notes, creating a stink is one of the few successful strategies to oppose it.
The actual expropriation process is documented here. There are plenty of checks and balances. The reality comes down to, it's hard for an individual's needs to stand in the way of the greater good.
Google 'Expropriation Lawyer" and you will get lots of hits. There are dozens and dozens of expropriations in the GTA every year. If these didn't happen, our infrastructure would be hugely expensive and some things wouldn't get built at all.
I have a lot more sympathy for preserving the woodlot. That's irreplaceable. But guaranteeing Scarborough residents that there will be no expropriation, and little or no construction inconvenience, is aiming for a fantasy world. Some pain is unavoidable. The dialogue helps keep things in reason, in both directions.
- Paul
Here's an old Toronto Star article on expropriation. As it notes, creating a stink is one of the few successful strategies to oppose it.
The actual expropriation process is documented here. There are plenty of checks and balances. The reality comes down to, it's hard for an individual's needs to stand in the way of the greater good.
Google 'Expropriation Lawyer" and you will get lots of hits. There are dozens and dozens of expropriations in the GTA every year. If these didn't happen, our infrastructure would be hugely expensive and some things wouldn't get built at all.
I have a lot more sympathy for preserving the woodlot. That's irreplaceable. But guaranteeing Scarborough residents that there will be no expropriation, and little or no construction inconvenience, is aiming for a fantasy world. Some pain is unavoidable. The dialogue helps keep things in reason, in both directions.
- Paul
amnesiajune
Senior Member
They did, but that's selection bias - a few projects were finished because people dealt with it, but many were abandoned because people refused to. Remember this?
crs1026
Superstar
It's just plain sad how little of that plan got implemented. If it had, we'd be so far ahead from where we are today.
Talk about wasting the last three decades.
- Paul
Talk about wasting the last three decades.
- Paul
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
They did, but that's selection bias - a few projects were finished because people dealt with it, but many were abandoned because people refused to. Remember this?
$500 Million Sheppard Subway between Yonge and Victoria Park (actual cost: $1 Billion)
$565 Million DRL between Union and Pape
$395 Million busway between Eglinton West and Toronto's western boundary
How I wish these prices were real...
Hopkins123
Senior Member
They did, but that's selection bias - a few projects were finished because people dealt with it, but many were abandoned because people refused to. Remember this?
Tangible proof that political inaction costs the City and its commuters dearly. If only Bill Davis wasn't overthrown in a coup de tat, Network 2011 would probably be a completed reality by now.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
Now those prices are more like the cost per kilometre of new subway. ~ $500 million/km for the DRL might be a bargain!