kEiThZ
Superstar
Steve's MO. Spam articles about European projects into every discussion. Then insult other posters. Mods never correct him sadly.....
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Steve's MO. Spam articles about European projects into every discussion. Then insult other posters. Mods never correct him sadly.....
salsa
Senior Member
Exactly. And when I call him out he starts to lecture me about Crossrail and how I'm "unable to handle how others do it", even though I never actually shared my damn opinion. To date, he has posted about it in the following threads over the past two weeks:
- Relief like
- Yonge subway
- TYSSE
- Pearson transit hub
- Via rail
- GO transit electrification
- Transit funding
- TTC "other items"
- And now the Scarborough subway
steveintoronto
Superstar
Gosh, if you'd read instead of getting reactionary, you'd realize I posted exactly that. But I digress...
You know, you folks epitomize the inability of Canada to learn lessons from other nations at least a generation ahead of not only the mechanics of better ways of building transit infrastructure, but also the financing. Perhaps it's escaped you as to how funding has become so problematic in Toronto of late?
Gotta love that one. Since when did they move New York and Sydney, Australia to Europe?
You make my case about inward looking Canada. How's those Leafs doing, eh?
Forgotten
Active Member
Bull. You and ssguy with your falsehoods. Your hero Tory has already talked Wynne into letting him pay for half of ShamTrack. I heard today he's out there continuing the fight by begging for cash at some rustic street corner downtown.
salsa
Senior Member
OneCity
Senior Member
His team was likely in desperation mode to do something to defend their neutered one stop plan subway against a more organized media & pro SLRT special interest group attack that was coming heading into the vote. It's no shock Oxford would prefer the subway. It was a stupid move but as far as conflicts go there's really not that much here other than an unorganized desperate request for public support from his camp. Pretty pathetic like his subway design
The bigger issue of Smarttracks impact on the subway and other projects remains. Yet have heard very little about this project aside from the dumbed down SLRT vs subway arguments.
kEiThZ
Superstar
And?
What does that have to do with raising money to pay for desired infrastructure? Continue your tirade about SmartTrack and Tory if you want. But my wider point stands. If you want a piece of infrastructure, whatever it is (DRL, Smart Track, Sheppard East LRT, or Scarborough Subway) you should be expected to chip in substantially. Other cities in Ontario are doing the same. You can't complain about self-imposed scarcity. This is like going on a diet and then complaining about being hungry.
Sooner or later, this will become an election issue in Ontario. There were plenty of complaints in Ottawa about how much they were paying for their LRT plan vs. Toronto.
salsa
Senior Member
Ha, so he was only trying to defend himself against the big bad media. That clears things up.
You know for a fact that John Tory (the founder of SmartTrack) consistently allies himself with developers pushing transportation projects that benefit their properties, and has received big campaign donations from them. You know that he will say and do anything that he thinks will benefit him politically, regardless of actual merit. Legitimately good ideas don't need paid shills and lies told on their behalf. John Tory would we wise to actually listen to his critics and understand why they are concerned, but clearly that's beneath him.
The only special interest group is that astroturf front group ConnectScarborough masquerading as a grassroots organization, which turned out to be a creation of the mayor's office, Oxford Properties and a Liberal Party lobbyist. Which by the way, may soon be under investigation by the city watchdog. Meanwhile let me know what are the real motivations of Paul Ainslie or Josh Matlow, aside from evidence based planning, value for money, and ensuring that more residents get transit.
syn
Senior Member
If the funds are limited then we shouldn't be building a 6km 1 stop extension in the first place.
What we should be building is the best value for the money at accommodates the greatest number of riders.
Sakraycore
Active Member
OneCity
Senior Member
salsa:
You know for a fact that John Tory (the founder of SmartTrack) consistently allies himself with developers Pretty much all Politicians are linked to lobbyists and developers. Tory is more over the top as he has more connections and wears them closer to his sleeve from his corporate private sector past and makes him worry less as open partnerships are not frowned upon. pushing transportation projects that benefit their properties, his plan is lackluster, but the people of Scarborough want a subway to SCC as well. Oxford just happens to benefit from Tory's plan or Fords for the matter so it makes sense they would support. Tory's move to lobby them for public support was in poor taste and dumb given the fact this topic is under the microscope compared to any others. and has received big campaign donations from them All lobbyist go to where they will benefit the most. It was a poor PR move here but Tory is far from alone in donations. The rules allow this unfortunately. You know that he will say and do anything that he thinks will benefit him politically, regardless of actual merit You are believing this is a Tory only problem again?. Legitimately good ideas don't need paid shills and lies told on their behalf. John Tory would we wise to actually listen to his critics and understand why they are concerned, but clearly that's beneath him. Actually given his support his critics would be wise to soften their stance and listen to the voters or they will remain ward councillors fighting a failed plan while the other government levels and almost all of Scarborough has moved on long ago. They are not offering anything new so Tory is sailing by with the details or lack of in his one stop subway.
The only special interest group is that astroturf front group ConnectScarborough masquerading as a grassroots organization, Surely ConnectScarborough is a Political creation but I was referring to Scarborough Transit Action who is an mainly outside special interest strategically created by the mainly outside TTC Riders special Interest group. Scarborough doesn't have enough of the type of people so committed to advocacy to organize on this level to fight back and be heard outside of Politicians. This dumb Tory tactic by no means makes these groups justified but the organized special interest and media fight is likely why the Tory's camp and the Liberals try to hack something similar together quickly. Scarborough does have a grass roots advocacy group which has been forming over the past decade and it supports Tory's plan and is not "Astroturf" but they don't get much air time compared to the mainly outside affiliates who recently got described as "experts" by the media turned out to be a creation of the mayor's office, Oxford Properties and a Liberal Party lobbyist. Which by the way, may soon be under investigation by the city watchdog I don't think anyone is worried about this. Its more poor optics and will die off. Aside from tickling the usual anti subway base supporters it's not lasting story. This is just a poor decision by both parties but nothing that is going to really hurt Tory. Meanwhile let me know what are the real motivations of Paul Ainslie or Josh Matlow, Ainsle wants the quickest way to get LRT in his riding as most residents in his ward are disconnected from the subway, and they stand to gain only from the Eglinton LRT. Makes sense why he's the minority. Matlow is Matlow claiming evidence and facts to support his outside narrative He gets a lot of media attention for a guy who is not Mayor nor does he have a Scarborough centric view. They are all entitled to their positions but both are just as self serving like the rest. If they fit your belief and you want to see them as genuine that's your call. I don't blame them for supporting their wards but I blame them for being so hardened on something with clear support from 95% of other Scarborough Politicians, Mayor, Mayoral runner up, Liberal MP's, Liberal leader, and Conservative Leader. aside from evidence based planning, Evidence based? That seems to be the new coined phrase these days by these self serving opponents and with Tory's crappy he makes them look believable. Sorry the media and these politicians don't even talk about all the evidence. Just the part that's fits into their narrative. Even then they have abused the "facts" recently misleading the public, even worse. value for money This one never goes well on this forum with the DRL waiting to be funded yet but Scarborough should have its main areas connected better, not just "value" plan to help others currently on a different for of transit, and ensuring that more residents get transit.Id rather integrate Scarborough in a more detailed manner and start building better locally when possibly than just dealing with one component. I think its a better long term approach vs. short term thinking. Which don't get me wrong it has its good points. Just not what I want to see for Scarborough's future and no matter how poor Tory's subway is I don't want to see a transfer one stop before SCC
~
You know for a fact that John Tory (the founder of SmartTrack) consistently allies himself with developers Pretty much all Politicians are linked to lobbyists and developers. Tory is more over the top as he has more connections and wears them closer to his sleeve from his corporate private sector past and makes him worry less as open partnerships are not frowned upon. pushing transportation projects that benefit their properties, his plan is lackluster, but the people of Scarborough want a subway to SCC as well. Oxford just happens to benefit from Tory's plan or Fords for the matter so it makes sense they would support. Tory's move to lobby them for public support was in poor taste and dumb given the fact this topic is under the microscope compared to any others. and has received big campaign donations from them All lobbyist go to where they will benefit the most. It was a poor PR move here but Tory is far from alone in donations. The rules allow this unfortunately. You know that he will say and do anything that he thinks will benefit him politically, regardless of actual merit You are believing this is a Tory only problem again?. Legitimately good ideas don't need paid shills and lies told on their behalf. John Tory would we wise to actually listen to his critics and understand why they are concerned, but clearly that's beneath him. Actually given his support his critics would be wise to soften their stance and listen to the voters or they will remain ward councillors fighting a failed plan while the other government levels and almost all of Scarborough has moved on long ago. They are not offering anything new so Tory is sailing by with the details or lack of in his one stop subway.
The only special interest group is that astroturf front group ConnectScarborough masquerading as a grassroots organization, Surely ConnectScarborough is a Political creation but I was referring to Scarborough Transit Action who is an mainly outside special interest strategically created by the mainly outside TTC Riders special Interest group. Scarborough doesn't have enough of the type of people so committed to advocacy to organize on this level to fight back and be heard outside of Politicians. This dumb Tory tactic by no means makes these groups justified but the organized special interest and media fight is likely why the Tory's camp and the Liberals try to hack something similar together quickly. Scarborough does have a grass roots advocacy group which has been forming over the past decade and it supports Tory's plan and is not "Astroturf" but they don't get much air time compared to the mainly outside affiliates who recently got described as "experts" by the media turned out to be a creation of the mayor's office, Oxford Properties and a Liberal Party lobbyist. Which by the way, may soon be under investigation by the city watchdog I don't think anyone is worried about this. Its more poor optics and will die off. Aside from tickling the usual anti subway base supporters it's not lasting story. This is just a poor decision by both parties but nothing that is going to really hurt Tory. Meanwhile let me know what are the real motivations of Paul Ainslie or Josh Matlow, Ainsle wants the quickest way to get LRT in his riding as most residents in his ward are disconnected from the subway, and they stand to gain only from the Eglinton LRT. Makes sense why he's the minority. Matlow is Matlow claiming evidence and facts to support his outside narrative He gets a lot of media attention for a guy who is not Mayor nor does he have a Scarborough centric view. They are all entitled to their positions but both are just as self serving like the rest. If they fit your belief and you want to see them as genuine that's your call. I don't blame them for supporting their wards but I blame them for being so hardened on something with clear support from 95% of other Scarborough Politicians, Mayor, Mayoral runner up, Liberal MP's, Liberal leader, and Conservative Leader. aside from evidence based planning, Evidence based? That seems to be the new coined phrase these days by these self serving opponents and with Tory's crappy he makes them look believable. Sorry the media and these politicians don't even talk about all the evidence. Just the part that's fits into their narrative. Even then they have abused the "facts" recently misleading the public, even worse. value for money This one never goes well on this forum with the DRL waiting to be funded yet but Scarborough should have its main areas connected better, not just "value" plan to help others currently on a different for of transit, and ensuring that more residents get transit.Id rather integrate Scarborough in a more detailed manner and start building better locally when possibly than just dealing with one component. I think its a better long term approach vs. short term thinking. Which don't get me wrong it has its good points. Just not what I want to see for Scarborough's future and no matter how poor Tory's subway is I don't want to see a transfer one stop before SCC
~
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amnesiajune
Senior Member
In the case of Paul Ainslie, most of the Scarborough Malvern LRT would run through his ward. And in the case of Josh Matlow, it's just beating a dead horse so that people at Yonge and St. Clair will vote for him in 2018. No different than when he complains about the OMB or walks around getting rid of condo developers' signs. He knows his LRT proposal will never happen, and he couldn't care less as long as his name and face are in the news every now and then.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
I like the OMB. These nimby groups need to be neutered.
syn
Senior Member
Scarborough already has transit.
Scarborough has had subway access for nearly 50 years. That's also the last time any kind of subway was built downtown.
$5 billion for a 6km one stop extension is very, very far from the best option available with limited funds.
Can we just ee-amalgamate so Tory doesn't have to worry about buying votes in Scarborough?!
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
DRL is best for Scarborough. Residents of Scarborough will be using the DRL, more so than they would the Scarborough subway.
Funny that.