[syn]

It's already been decades!! Indefinitely delaying the extension project till it costs billions more per kilometre to build only worsens the problem.

It wasn't needed decades ago and isn't now. The DRL should've been built decades ago and is desperately needed now.

In any case, this is not the thread for that debate. There's not much to talk about regarding this current project except the ballooning price which is poised to go even higher.

 

[44 North]

The actual idea of the extension isn't a bad idea at all. It's just given all the various crisis within the TTC, it doesn't seem like it should be at the forefront. The DRL was way more important then any of the projects that have been built in the past decade, and the SSE seems to be another thing cutting in line. There's already rapid transit to the STC, it's just not as desirable. Should there be a subway, yes, with actual stops between the STC and Kennedy. But, do we have to build a 6km "express" subway right now, costs-be-damned, no.

But a major Line 3 fix is needed, and it is sort of a priority. The vehicles are too old and the infrastructure requires capacity expansion. It's actually been a priority to fix this for a couple decades (in other words it hasn't cut in line). However since we struck down a fleet replacement option, struck down the rebuild for LFLRVs option, and settled on a Line 2 extension - then by default that third option should be at the "forefront" right now. I mean we could go back to either of the first two options, but regardless something is needed. Whether the RL is important or not is kinda superfluous.

 

[Hopkins123]

I have a pretty strong suspicion it will get built in its current form now, but perhaps even more compromised after the numbers come out. The province and all the mayoral candidates (not including me ) seem committed to the idea something MUST be built for the sake of building something, but it seems in the end it will be something everyone regrets, expensive to maintain, and expensive to fix later (such as adding in missing stations)

The best solution if it follows the current McCowan alignment is to advocate to put in stops every two kilometres. That means the reintroduction of the Scarborough General Hospital stop at Lawrence and a new intermediary at Brimley and Eglinton. We need to take advantage of the so-called transit friendly regimes we have to push for this.

And to address @syn's constant deflection: if Toronto gets $10 billion to spend on transit hypothetically, no, we don't split it several ways, we ensure that don't cut corners on the proposal that's already on the books. Acting like Toronto will never see funding again and ergo must direct every last cent coming in to the DRL - which will do little to help someone from east Scarborough get to downtown any faster if it's still a long ride to Kennedy first - is a wrongheaded decision to make.

the SSE seems to be another thing cutting in line.

Scarborough has already been cut in front of for the past 35 years. A subway to the Town Centre was the priority long before TYSSE, Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West. Now the DRL seeks to steal priority. Enough is enough. You can start to understand why people are aggrieved.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

That

But a major Line 3 fix is needed, and it is sort of a priority. The vehicles are too old and the infrastructure requires capacity expansion. It's actually been a priority to fix this for a couple decades (in other words it hasn't cut in line). However since we struck down a fleet replacement option, struck down the rebuild for LFLRVs option, and settled on a Line 2 extension - then by default that third option should be at the "forefront" right now. I mean we could go back to either of the first two options, but regardless something is needed. Whether the RL is important or not is kinda superfluous.

Agreed. All the eggs went into the SSE basket and thus another crisis is created. A fleet replacement would have been a no-brainer, and then there could have been lots of money to do something like extend the SRT past McCowan and actually increase rapid transit in Scarborough while leaving money to contribute to the DRL.

Here's an idea, have the SRT follow the planned Smart Track route past Kennedy, and join the future DRL as a branch with another branch going North on the planned DRL route. I suppose it's kind of like the old GO ALRT plan, but it might work.


Reality is what I said above, they'll build something that will solve no problems in the end other than the transfer at Kennedy, and introduce a slew of new ones.

 

[BurlOak]

That


Agreed. All the eggs went into the SSE basket and thus another crisis is created. A fleet replacement would have been a no-brainer, and then there could have been lots of money to do something like extend the SRT past McCowan and actually increase rapid transit in Scarborough while leaving money to contribute to the DRL.

Here's an idea, have the SRT follow the planned Smart Track route past Kennedy, and join the future DRL as a branch with another branch going North on the planned DRL route. I suppose it's kind of like the old GO ALRT plan, but it might work.


Reality is what I said above, they'll build something that will solve no problems in the end other than the transfer at Kennedy, and introduce a slew of new ones.

If I understand you, this is what you suggest.
I assume SRT would be different trains than GO, so on the LSE, you are saving space to 2 tracks for SRT, and 2 tracks would be for all GO service. Would a 3rd track even fit (5 total). I would assume with RER to Markham and Pickering, 4 tracks would be needed for Metrolinx.

That is why I considered going beyond Kennedy as well, but essentially following the Gatineau Hydro corridor and the Don Valley. I would expect that the conventional DRL would need full service on the north leg if it were to actually relieve Yonge.

 

[salsa]

Scarborough has already been cut in front of for the past 35 years. A subway to the Town Centre was the priority long before TYSSE, Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West. Now the DRL seeks to steal priority. Enough is enough. You can start to understand why people are aggrieved.

The DRL is not "stealing priority". It's been on the books long before that Town Centre even existed. Regardless, the subway is currently the top priority so I don't know why you're ranting in the first place.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

If I understand you, this is what you suggest.
I assume SRT would be different trains than GO, so on the LSE, you are saving space to 2 tracks for SRT, and 2 tracks would be for all GO service. Would a 3rd track even fit (5 total). I would assume with RER to Markham and Pickering, 4 tracks would be needed for Metrolinx.

That is why I considered going beyond Kennedy as well, but essentially following the Gatineau Hydro corridor and the Don Valley. I would expect that the conventional DRL would need full service on the north leg if it were to actually relieve Yonge.

View attachment 134874

This is all fantasy of course. I think even at the RER frequencies you could manage with 2 for metrolinx and 2 for the now much extended Line 3. The DRL and the SRT would use the same rolling stock (not TRs) so they'd be interlined downtown. By running such a long distance along an existing rail corridor, it should be able to do it for similar kinds of money that Montreal is spending on the REM. Line 3 could become the Smart Track stops along that line, leaving the parallel GO RER at much farther spaced stations to keep it fast for long distance commuters in the 905

 

[syn]

The DRL is not "stealing priority". It's been on the books long before that Town Centre even existed. Regardless, the subway is currently the top priority so I don't know why you're ranting in the first place.

You have to keep in mind this is coming from the same person who has written:

- The Scarborough Subway extension has been a main priority for 35 years, even though the RT is underused most of the time
- Rapid Transit that gets you from Kennedy to STC (over 6km) in less than 10 minutes is bad because it involves a staircase
- McCowan is the Yonge Street of Scarborough
- There may be elderly ladies with canes going downtown, therefore we must spend billions of dollars to ensure they don't have to use an LRT, even if it means a much longer bus ride
- Density doesn't matter
- Cost doesn't matter
- The RT is 'bursting at the seams' because one can only have an entire car to themselves outside of rush hour
- David Miller and the Liberals are responsible for pedestrians killed in streetcar accidents

 

[salsa]

You have to keep in mind this is coming from the same person who has written:

- The Scarborough Subway extension has been a main priority for 35 years, even though the RT is underused most of the time
- Rapid Transit that gets you from Kennedy to STC (over 6km) in less than 10 minutes is bad because it involves a staircase
- McCowan is the Yonge Street of Scarborough
- There may be elderly ladies with canes going downtown, therefore we must spend billions of dollars to ensure they don't have to use an LRT, even if it means a much longer bus ride
- Density doesn't matter
- Cost doesn't matter
- The RT is 'bursting at the seams' because one can only have an entire car to themselves outside of rush hour
- David Miller and the Liberals are responsible for pedestrians killed in streetcar accidents

Trust me I'm well aware. I only ever respond when I have nothing better to do with my time.

 

[syn]

Trust me I'm well aware. I only ever respond when I have nothing better to do with my time.

It's only February, I'm sure things will improve.

 

[Rainforest]

As I've said all along - I have no problem spending $5 billion for transit in Scarborough. I do have a problem wasting $5 billion in Scarborough, and that's exactly what the SSE is shaping up to be.

The city would be far better off building subways in priority areas of need, and only building a subway in somewhere like Scarborough when it can be done properly. Cost and a lack of density make the current SSE a terrible idea.

The hypocrisy of this statement is that you simultaneously claim to support spending $5 billion for transit in Scarborough, and claim that SSE should not be built because DRL is a higher priority. Obviously if you are spending those $5 billion in Scarborough anyway, then you are not getting any further with DRL.

 

[Rainforest]

So I guess streetcars as a mode of transportation are now in doubt too, as per this latest leap of logic from the SSE fan club.

Another leap of logic is pretending that an opinion in a matter unrelated to SSE, expressed by a particular person, is necessarily shared by all other SSE supporters.

 

[Hopkins123]

You have to keep in mind this is coming from the same person who has written:

- The Scarborough Subway extension has been a main priority for 35 years, even though the RT is underused most of the time
- Rapid Transit that gets you from Kennedy to STC (over 6km) in less than 10 minutes is bad because it involves a staircase
- McCowan is the Yonge Street of Scarborough
- There may be elderly ladies with canes going downtown, therefore we must spend billions of dollars to ensure they don't have to use an LRT, even if it means a much longer bus ride
- Density doesn't matter
- Cost doesn't matter
- The RT is 'bursting at the seams' because one can only have an entire car to themselves outside of rush hour
- David Miller and the Liberals are responsible for pedestrians killed in streetcar accidents

Well of course if you take my statements out of context you'll come to the conclusions you're insinuating.

The SRT should never had been built, likewise replacing it with a vamped up version that still forces the transfer is a mistake. Run the Bloor-Danforth along the SRT corridor for all I care, just don't perpetuate the needless transfer at Kennedy! Cost and density do matter. There's opportunity costs to consider. We are trying to develop a third urban core around Ellesmere and McCowan. Have you not seen the 25 year plans which only a subway is suited to handle the increased volumes of riders? If in peak hour we are leaving passengers behind on the platform because they can't fit into the SRT trains is that not a comparable issue to Bloor-Yonge crowding in peak hour? Maybe fewer people but still an issue, and all end-destination oriented from Kennedy, a few let-offs at Lawrence but the bulk heading to SCC. If 75,000 people daily want to go to SCC why force those 75,000 to exit one train go up a flight of stairs and wait on another train to go in the same direction of travel?

And I never said they were responsible directly. But why propagate the same risk of pedestrian-surface rail collision and fatality elsewhere in the city when it could have been avoided all together. Victoria Park and Eglinton folks: https://www.mykawartha.com/news-sto...ar-victoria-park-eglinton-in-last-few-months/

It's a design flaw not to grade-separate the stop at this intersection to reduce the risk of pedestrians darting across traffic to catch an oncoming LRT. But yeah, continue to dismiss my opinions as if they don't have any merit.

 

[Hopkins123]

Another leap of logic is pretending that an opinion in a matter unrelated to SSE, expressed by a particular person, is necessarily shared by all other SSE supporters.

I'm obviously on the right side of history and they just don't want to admit it. All debating with people like them has done has cost us yet another 5 years of nothing getting built. Remember it was 2013 when Council approved the SSE extension up McCowan. 5 years in which the price ballooned to $5 billion up from $3. Yay! Let's debate another five years and see where that gets us.

 

[Rainforest]

I'm obviously on the right side of history and they just don't want to admit it. All debating with people like them has done has cost us yet another 5 years of nothing getting built. Remember it was 2013 when Council approved the SSE extension up McCowan. 5 years in which the price ballooned to $5 billion up from $3. Yay! Let's debate another five years and see where that gets us.

The original question was about Eglinton LRT, and whether it had to be fully grade-separated. On Eglinton, I actually disagree with you (I think the current design is just fine).

While on the SSE matter, you and I are on the same page.