[nhui06]

I suspect that if Patrick Brown and the Ontario Tories win in 2018 with a majority government and Doug Ford gets elected mayor, Sheppard Subway East extension will happen sooner rather than later.

Which will be quite ironic since Conservatives are suppose to be more reserve with public spending. I still remember Doug Ford rolling out his transit plan - subways all over the suburbs without having to raise taxes - sign me up!! (haha)

 

[44 North]

At least get your facts right (but I'm honestly not surprised here). Both Miller's and Ford's plans would have replaced the SRT with LRT.

In fairness he said "almost revived", and I'm assuming the use of 'almost' in that instant included the use of LRVs (as opposed to subway/metro rolling stock). Burloak seems to know the facts on this issue more than most here, and afaik is the only poster that quotes the buried Metrolinx report that few seem to talk about.

I'm only speculating since we never followed through with that decision. But it's logical to believe that if we chose to build a 30km fully grade-separated line that we'd go with efficient and lightweight subway/metro rolling stock. This would also save big bucks on tearing down + rebuilding much of Line 3's infrastructure. Whether it's MkII or some other vehicle spec'd to those dimensions, it'd surely become obvious to those in charge how inefficient it is to use hefty and lower capacity LRVs for that task.

LRT is a poor choice for the SRT as much as a subway is. The best choice was always the first.......SkyTrain. Costs a fraction of either one of the others, will take one-tenth the amount of time to rebuild, the maintenance & garage facilities are already there but would just need to be expanded, it is fast, safe, reliable { SRT's reliability problems have nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with complete TTC incompetence}, comfortable, quiet, smooth, and very cost-effective...........Vancouver MAKES money on the SkyTrain system.

I agree with part of this, except for sole-sourcing Skytrain. We should put out a tender for vehicles fitting the specs of what we want and see what returns. There are numerous vehicles and manufacturers that can make a train similar to an MkII, so why choose just one without looking?

Sheppard East will get built. That's why Glenn De Baremaker wants the big bend. This 3.5 billion will become 7 fast when they build that Progress station in the middle of nowhere and people complain about the subway ending in a industrial park.

~~~~~~
Either do Brimley or just use the SRT and keep all of the stations!

I'd personally like to see Sheppard costed as a 4-car extension with 100m stations. Not so much built per se, but at least presented as an option to see how much lower the costs would be vs 6-car 150m stations.

 

[smallspy]

LRT is a poor choice for the SRT as much as a subway is. The best choice was always the first.......SkyTrain. Costs a fraction of either one of the others, will take one-tenth the amount of time to rebuild, the maintenance & garage facilities are already there but would just need to be expanded, it is fast, safe, reliable { SRT's reliability problems have nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with complete TTC incompetence}, comfortable, quiet, smooth, and very cost-effective...........Vancouver MAKES money on the SkyTrain system.

Bombardier's ART really only comes into its own in efficiency is a very, very narrow margin of ridership/hour. LRT is able to cover it almost to its maximum. And frankly, you've completely ignored the fact that it relies on a single-source for equipment and parts, and that it is as expensive to operate and maintain as a subway, but with far less maximum capacity.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Tulse]

I'm confused -- would replacing the current SRT with new SRT rolling stock count as "respecting Scarborough" or not?

 

[rbt]

I suspect that if Patrick Brown and the Ontario Tories win in 2018 with a majority government and Doug Ford gets elected mayor, Sheppard Subway East extension will happen sooner rather than later.

Naw. They'll do an EA and promise to fund it when a budget surplus becomes available which will be their 2nd term at the soonest.

A common technique for killing something is to replace a small package (Clinton's NASA moon program) with a bigger one (Bush's Mars program) but leave the funding up to the next guy who will either gut it or defer it.

Replacing a questionable LRT (could be BRT just as easily) with an even bigger program (subway) basically means it's dead; they just don't want to take flack for killing it so they make it sound exciting instead.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I suspect that if Patrick Brown and the Ontario Tories win in 2018 with a majority government and Doug Ford gets elected mayor, Sheppard Subway East extension will happen sooner rather than later.

Which will be quite ironic since Conservatives are suppose to be more reserve with public spending. I still remember Doug Ford rolling out his transit plan - subways all over the suburbs without having to raise taxes - sign me up!! (haha)

In fairness he said "almost revived", and I'm assuming the use of 'almost' in that instant included the use of LRVs (as opposed to subway/metro rolling stock). Burloak seems to know the facts on this issue more than most here, and afaik is the only poster that quotes the buried Metrolinx report that few seem to talk about.

I'm only speculating since we never followed through with that decision. But it's logical to believe that if we chose to build a 30km fully grade-separated line that we'd go with efficient and lightweight subway/metro rolling stock. This would also save big bucks on tearing down + rebuilding much of Line 3's infrastructure. Whether it's MkII or some other vehicle spec'd to those dimensions, it'd surely become obvious to those in charge how inefficient it is to use hefty and lower capacity LRVs for that task.



I agree with part of this, except for sole-sourcing Skytrain. We should put out a tender for vehicles fitting the specs of what we want and see what returns. There are numerous vehicles and manufacturers that can make a train similar to an MkII, so why choose just one without looking?



I'd personally like to see Sheppard costed as a 4-car extension with 100m stations. Not so much built per se, but at least presented as an option to see how much lower the costs would be vs 6-car 150m stations.

I think if Sheppard comes at less with you described 44, they will push it through. it means votes and ends the debate, which has been going on since 1988 frankly.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Naw. They'll do an EA and promise to fund it when a budget surplus becomes available which will be their 2nd term at the soonest.

A common technique for killing something is to replace a small package (Clinton's NASA moon program) with a bigger one (Bush's Mars program) but leave the funding up to the next guy who will either gut it or defer it.

Replacing a questionable LRT (could be BRT just as easily) with an even bigger program (subway) basically means it's dead; they just don't want to take flack for killing it so they make it sound exciting instead.

No, they'll bite. Everyone is sick of the debate. If they do the big bend, they have no choice.

 

[rbt]

No, they'll bite. Everyone is sick of the debate. If they do the big bend, they have no choice.

You think a Brown conservative majority will reach financial close on a Sheppard East subway package in their first term?

I'll take that bet.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

You think a Brown conservative majority will reach financial close on a Sheppard East subway package in their first term?

I'll take that bet.

I think Brown will want to stay premier after winning.

 

[rbt]

I think Brown will want to stay premier after winning.

That's the reason I think he won't tender anything related to TTC.

I expect to see some movement on RER (much slower than Wynne but still progress), a tax break like a 1% HST reduction, and something significant on the hydro file like buying their way out of existing contracts. Scarborough has been satisfied with studies so far and they will be for his first term too; too much money for a couple seats.

I'd like to be wrong on this but I'm sure not going to buy real-estate at Vic Park & Sheppard with the hopes of riding a subway to it within a decade.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You think a Brown conservative majority will reach financial close on a Sheppard East subway package in their first term?

I'll take that bet.

With the cost of construction rising astronomically, I really don't see any movement on Sheppard East for a very long time. Not until the price of building materials comes down. The cost of the SSE nearly doubled, and they're still expecting the prices to increase up to another $1 Billion on that project. Cost of Gardiner East also increased by $1 Billion. Now imagine how expensive Sheppard East would be, which would have more stations and is longer.

 

[kEiThZ]

I keep saying this. And I'll say it again. A lot of LRT advocates are missing the point. The big issues that many people have are

1) Travel time - Not inside Scarborough. But to the core. That travel time essentially defines their quality of life. The longer it takes to reach the core (and further), the shorter the radius of your job search, the less hours you can work, etc.

2) Permanence. - I was in high school in the 90s when they last promised to extend the RT to Markham and Sheppard. Nothing happened. And in the meantime the Sheppard subway got built.

If you were in the shoes of a non-transit geek average citizen, stuck ridding the rattling RT everyday, why would you trust politicians who talk about something else named "RT" and make also sort of promises but never deliver? Moreover, they dont seem to care at all that it takes you 1.5 hrs to get to your job in the core.

I wish there was a way to accelerate GO RER (and/or what happens with SmartTrack). That would entirely change the tenor of the debate. When that cuts commute times substantially, then local transit becomes a bigger issue and LRTs matter a lot more. Also, by then, Eglinton will be service and people will see a great example of LRT.

 

[BurlOak]

I keep saying this. And I'll say it again. A lot of LRT advocates are missing the point. The big issues that many people have are

1) Travel time - Not inside Scarborough. But to the core

This is so true. When people say that most trip in Scarborough are local, that a kid taking the bus to high school. Or maybe it's a parent taking the bus a few stops to buy groceries. Whether that parent or kid saves 5 minutes does not really matter even though the trip became 50% shorter. (and lower frequency of LRT vs bus almost cancels out the time savings.
It is the trip to the core that matters. Turning a 90 minute trip to 70 minutes may only be a 22% decrease, but is significant in absolute terms and makes a difference.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Travel to the core can be quicker, if (and that's a big IF) the transfer between the TTC and GO/RER and SmartTrack is free or at the very least at a discount, and convenient.

 

[Cobra]

Seems like the writing is on the wall about the Scarborough subway connecting to a future Sheppard Line extension. It goes beyond PC vs. Liberals. LOTS of liberals within the cabinet wants Sheppard subway East built as well.

LRT would have had way more support and less opposition if delivering speed was a priority when they came up with Sheppard LRT. Look at how Metrolinx is trying to speed up travel time between Mt.Dennis and Pearson by grade separating as much as they can. Funny how there was never any initiative to speed up Sheppard East nor Eglinton East. People called "bull" on the rapid transit title and quickly demanded subway instead.

It's council and TTC doing. Speed the LRT lines or you deserve the LRT backlash