[TheTigerMaster]

I find it hard to believe Tory and the councilors pushing for a subway would've not already found a cheaper solution if it existed. It's very much in their own interest to do so.

Also, Council did already order a third-party review of the costs, and they found that the costs were accurate, if not marginally understated.

 

[sixrings]

Don't you know wilson,yorkdale,kipling,islington,keele have been insulted for decades too

 

[pstogios]

Not to mention the residents that are forced to transfer to complete their trips *gasp!!!* have been insulted for decades as well. This includes pretty much the entire population of Toronto. How dare the city insult them without providing subways to their doorsteps?

 

[BurlOak]

I find it hard to believe Tory and the councilors pushing for a subway would've not already found a cheaper solution if it existed. It's very much in their own interest to do so.

I think there is a sizable group of senior officials who want to revert back to the transfer LRT and their means of achieving this is to drive up costs on the subway extension to the point that politicians will call for the switch back.

 

[BurlOak]

Seeing QP is paying for RER and hence most of ST why don`t they just change the ST route from going north past Lawrence to York Region and instead have it use the current SRT ROW and have it terminate at STC and save themselves $3 billion Tory would have his subway to STC, the city and province would save billions, it would relieve Y&B, and the people would get downtown from STC {and the rest of Scar for that matter} MUCH faster than by a Bloor Street extension ? Why hasn`t anyone {including you guys reading this}proposed this to The Star, City, or Tory himself?

The best option for STC for a transfer-free trip to downtown, taxpayers, Scar residents, and everyone looking for Yonge relief also happens to be, by far, the cheapest, easiest, and quickest to build. What am I missing here?

It has been proposed. http://worldwidewickens.com/?tag=smartspur
The bottleneck is actual the Lakeshore line west of where the Stouffville line joins in. Assuming 2 track would be dedicated for RER, and a capacity of 20 to 24 trains per hour - that would give 6 to 8 trains per hour for each of Pickering, Markham, and STC service. This 8 to 10 minute service would provide capacity for about 10,000 ppdph.

The Star doesn't want this because they want to restore David Millers legacy with the transfer LRT.
I would guess that many at the City level (Councillors and staff) are in the same boat.
Tory likely tried to raise it but the Liberals didn't want to share any credit (or track space) with Tory. If SmartTrack was fully supported by the Liberals, it would have looked quite bad that they had been working on RER for over a decade and then Tory gets a whole transit route done in half that time.

The other thing to remember is that as much as the Liberals have messed up transit, they have messed up pretty well every other file (i.e. Energy, Healthcare, Education). There is only so much Ford can do.

 

[OneCity]

What "current" project that would that be? The one stop plan, or the three stop plan that Ford claims will happen?

Correct. Makes sense, Ford is the Premier and John Tory also supports the extra stops and urgency to move on. Nothing else worth discussing in this thread besides stops and construction methods, and updates unless Ford says otherwise. Anything is possible but he's made no indication to date that would see a change to this alignment. All we know is their will be more stops in the plan.

I find it hard to believe Tory and the councillors pushing for a subway would've not already found a cheaper solution if it existed. It's very much in their own interest to do so.

The City did a study under Tory and found the cheaper elevated RT corridor was only slight less expensive. And since it also impeded with Smarttrack it didn't stand a chance. If the subway is(was) only going to be one stop then McCowan makes no sense to me, with stops it provides the most optimal stop locations when compared to any other plan.

 

[Rainforest]

RER to Scarborough Centre would be a great option, in many ways superior to both the subway extension and the light rail plan.

Unfortunately, the investment in the trunk Union Rail Corridor has been limited to the bare minimum necessary to run some service within the city. The trunk corridor capacity is likely not enough to accommodate the extra demand that would come from Scarborough, unless we reopen that file and do it over. Some sections of the rail corridor might have to be placed underground to achieve that.

 

[syn]

I think there is a sizable group of senior officials who want to revert back to the transfer LRT and their means of achieving this is to drive up costs on the subway extension to the point that politicians will call for the switch back.

Right. And Tory and the rest of the Scarborough Subway advocates are completely oblivious to this trickery?

We're talking about a city council that refused to conduct a value for money analysis of the two plans.

 

[syn]

2. The traveler is only going to Union Station, south of King, or Pape Gerrard (assuming the DRL opens on time and a transfer is available here). In every other instance, it's faster to take the subway because it's so well integrated with all the lines it connects to -- buses, subways, streetcars and all. A scarberian traveling to per say the Eaton Centre, U of T, or even York University would have a faster and likely easier commute if they were to take the TTC.

Oh dear.

The train won't take them exactly where they want to go?

They can just transfer to the TTC or walk.

Kind of like everyone else in the city that takes transit.

 

[syn]

Also, Council did already order a third-party review of the costs, and they found that the costs were accurate, if not marginally understated.

Exactly.

Scarborough is simply proving to be a location where building a subway is costly in virtually every regard - and we'll be paying for it for many decades.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Oh dear.

The train won't take them exactly where they want to go?

They can just transfer to the TTC or walk.

Kind of like everyone else in the city that takes transit.

You're missing the point. The TTC is faster BECAUSE transfers are seamless. GO transit (RER) and the TTC are currently not well integrated (no bus routes serve stations directly, subway transfers are cumbersome (except at Downsview Park). My point is that because of the existing challenges with the GO Transit network, taking the TTC to the majority of locations will be the faster way. That's not to say RER isn't needed, but it cannot replace what we already have, only add to it.

 

[syn]

You're missing the point. The TTC is faster BECAUSE transfers are seamless. GO transit (RER) and the TTC are currently not well integrated (no bus routes serve stations directly, subway transfers are cumbersome (except at Downsview Park). My point is that because of the existing challenges with the GO Transit network, taking the TTC to the majority of locations will be the faster way. That's not to say RER isn't needed, but it cannot replace what we already have, only add to it.

Then work on redesigning the transfers to make them as efficient as possible.

The current RT transfer at Kennedy is not cumbersome at all.

 

[sixrings]

We all know that all these things (outdoor stations, long transfers,) are just excuses for Subway advocates. They believe they deserve a subway so all other facts dont matter. Here is the picture of what the transfer was supposed to look like on the fully funded plan which could have been in operation by now with more stations then the one stop plan we may get and or the three stop plan some dream of.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

View attachment 150992 View attachment 150993 We all know that all these things (outdoor stations, long transfers,) are just excuses for Subway advocates. They believe they deserve a subway so all other facts dont matter. Here is the picture of what the transfer was supposed to look like on the fully funded plan which could have been in operation by now with more stations then the one stop plan we may get and or the three stop plan some dream of.

My fantasy that likely could have come true, if not for decades of political interference

 

[syn]

View attachment 150992 View attachment 150993 We all know that all these things (outdoor stations, long transfers,) are just excuses for Subway advocates. They believe they deserve a subway so all other facts dont matter. Here is the picture of what the transfer was supposed to look like on the fully funded plan which could have been in operation by now with more stations then the one stop plan we may get and or the three stop plan some dream of.

A legitimate rapid transit network in Scarborough, along with easy access to the subway and GO Transit.

A time when actual transit planners had a say in transit planning.