sixrings
Senior Member
Think of your great grand kids won't you
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sixrings
Senior Member
Why are you such a sheep listening to this left wing media bias. Clearly only the sun is torontos only reputable paper while whoever ford hired to do his interviews is the only serious news channel. Everyone else is bought off by unions, special interest groups, and people who believe in global warming.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Should this thread be renamed to this?
TTC: Line 2 East Extension (formerly the Scarborough Subway Extension) (In Design)
TTC: Line 2 East Extension (formerly the Scarborough Subway Extension) (In Design)
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. Which is why we choose to build the Scarborough Subway, not as a project for this generation, nor as a project for the next; but rather, as a project for the next next generation.
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Allandale25
Senior Member
Latest Star article where they interview people with development experience.
One quick question. If they [the province] wanted to extend the subway to Sheppard for a stop there, wouldn't the line need to straighten out at the STC stop? Am I wrong in recalling that they [City staff] made it bend to the northwest? I wonder if that's the reason the 30% design cost estimate is now delayed until April 2019. They need to future proof for what Ford wants.
One quick question. If they [the province] wanted to extend the subway to Sheppard for a stop there, wouldn't the line need to straighten out at the STC stop? Am I wrong in recalling that they [City staff] made it bend to the northwest? I wonder if that's the reason the 30% design cost estimate is now delayed until April 2019. They need to future proof for what Ford wants.
sixrings
Senior Member
Don't let perfect become the enemy of good
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The math suggests that in order for developers to cover the cost of building two additional stations for a three-stop subway rather than the planned one-stop extension, the province would need to allow those developers to build two of the largest private real-estate projects in Canada — eclipsing neighbourhoods largely made up of single-family homes.
Details of how the province proposes that the development industry would recover the costs of building the transit infrastructure remains vague, but Transportation Minister Jeff Yurek earlier told the Globe and Mail it would involve offering developers land and air rights around and over the future subway stations. Yurek said this plan would “not be a cost to the taxpayer.”
Those experts say there is simply no way that enough demand for that real estate would materialize in time to make those projects financially viable, leaving the province’s proposal dead on arrival.
It's almost like the government wants this project to die
BurlOak
Senior Member
Usually "future proof" means to allow for multiple options in the future. Is the new definition to sabotage things so nothing useful can be done with it?
crs1026
Superstar
It’s more that they have painted themselves into a corner by cutting revenue so much, before they had really sussed out what their spending program might be. And applying a mantra of “Let’s put our faith in the private sector” without doing any serious analysis of what the private sector can realistically contribute, and what realistically they can’t.
You’ve heard of “analysis paralysis”? With this government, it’s “let’s not analyse, ever”. They throw out talking points but not facts, or statistics, or any sort of analysis. I bet they never did homework in high school - ever.
- Paul
OneCity
Senior Member
Why bring it up? Because its a huge part of why Transit City was overturned as a package and all the issues matter when understanding why it came crashing down as a main election platform item. Yes, the plan was that bad, reality is the majority of residents here drive for various reasons, driving is still by far the most effective mode of transit, the bus network is already very good. And aside from the LRT being a sexy vanity line that would spruce up the warn out "priority areas" it did almost nothing our express buses don't do. So we negatively impacted the one transit option that's actually efficient for what? Certainly nothing equal or enhancing to replace it with. So not only did it do little to improve bus commutes, it added a new transfer before the Centre of Sheppard which is already an issue here with the RT
We now have a plan (once stops are added back) that will address various needs and actually get residents around to differing areas far better than what we currently have. Not only that the Centre will now flourish with development as we've already seen the proposals coming in since it became clear the subway would be built. There is no comparison in overall benefit and addressing various needs with a "network" style plan.
I can easily support streetcar style LRT but only alongside seamlessly connected Centre to the City main infrastructure and providing RER to union. Local network was never Scarboroughs main issue as should be clear by now. I also completely support the improved EELRT with the improved grade separation in key areas and the fact we are now providing better access to Central Scarborough so we have a network that can better justify removing lanes of traffic. I still believe tearing up lanes is very counterproductive but benefits of a "network" along side the benefits of sprucing up the warn areas are worth while together. But again this alone was very short sighted.
Fearmongering are those claiming (hoping) the Ford government fails to deliver the SSE with no relevant proof. Same group who have been protecting Transit City by loosely claiming it as some great "expert" driven transit plan since it was overturned. Tory has split the two overbearing political ideologies in the City between Ford and Miller into a plan that optimizes transit for all lifestyles in the diverse Borough. Ford has the ability to repair the damage done by a polarized council and build the proper subway without being overruled, the City has the ability to build Smarttrack stops and hopefully once the subway upload occurs the City can now hopefully start to focus on improving local infrastructure routes as more of a municipally focused task. If Ford delvers on his clear promise, Tory will likely get little credit he deserves for his political work in this hyper polarizing environment.
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44 North
Senior Member
Yurek is obviously intelligent and has strong post-secondary credentials (Pharmacy at UofT grad). As do most in the PC party. The problem is they're very obviously spouting ideological nonsense that they don't believe. Jeff knows he's lying. Look at him when he's saying these blatant falsehoods, all shaky and mumbling. This is the reason they have literal fake news Ontario News Now, because their promises don't make sense, they can't answer to them, and even the most right-wing news orgs wouldnt be able to lob them any soft ones. The whole party is toe-ing the line, a nonexistent line. Not to mention kowtowing to a braindead Beverly Hillbilly, though a darker more nefarious style of Beverly Hillbilly (4/4 Ford kids were involved in the drug trade and couldn't successfully run a lemonade stand).
Allandale25
Senior Member
All the posts after mine earlier were interesting, but does anyone know the answer to the question I had? Does the currently available public plan show a bend for the STC station and tail track and would this need to change if the province wanted the line to continue to Sheppard (for the third stop)?
OneCity
Senior Member
To my knowledge Its basically a straight line up McCowan from the Lawrence ave. area. No bend after that. There is an access at the current RT-City Centre mall entrance and long walking corridor to access the outdoor McCowan stop. Basically they built one stop that will effectively replace two RT stops and the natural extension of this design would be continuing the track straight up to Sheppard.
Its a very nice concept but the McCowan stop is only accessible on the west side of the street which is a bit unfortunate for those coming from the McCowan precinct
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Suburban_Toronto
New Member
I rarely post, but I felt I have to as a individual who has spent the better part of his life living and commuting within Scarborough. The current plan will be the worst transit option in Scarborough's history, next to the present day SRT. There is a lot of travel within Scarborough and to be honest it sucks. We are crammed into bus routes that are primarily shared with traffic and only have two main transit hubs Kennedy station and STC. The current plan will perpetuate this unfortunate reality and will save 10 mins to many people but will be a great disservice to all Scarborough residents.
Scarborough is a actually a very spread out neighbourhood and if you don't have a car your pretty much a second class citizen. Although cars are fairly inexpensive and a a lot of residents have access to a car. It is not practical for the whole community...as it makes commuting to work and/or school a real pain when using public transit and we feel robbed of our time and put the blame on an ineffective transit system based from out of touch politicians. How can we create a better transit solution, when most of us don't even trust the decision makers?.. I honestly don't know what the right solution....but I do want to make an informed choice, this decision will alter my community, a place me and my children call home. I want a system that can connect our neighbourhoods, make commuting to work and school faster and more pleasant and most importantly positively impact one of the most forgotten parts of Toronto.
Note:
From the research I have done, I would like to further explore options that connects neighbourhoods through lrts and BRT lane, which canto Rapid Rail service (GO RER). I also like the concept of consolidating SRT and Sheppart east transit through Neptis. Maybe combining the two systems to connect Fairview mall, with Agincourt, STC, Centennial, Malvern, UTSC, Kingston Road and Kennedy Station.
Sheppard East + SRT (Malvern) + EELRT+ GO RER
Sheppard + SRT (Malvern) Hybrid
Souce:
http://www.neptis.org/publications/.../solution-scarborough-impasse-scarborough-wye
https://uttri.utoronto.ca/files/2015/03/Choices-for-Scarborough.pdf
Scarborough is a actually a very spread out neighbourhood and if you don't have a car your pretty much a second class citizen. Although cars are fairly inexpensive and a a lot of residents have access to a car. It is not practical for the whole community...as it makes commuting to work and/or school a real pain when using public transit and we feel robbed of our time and put the blame on an ineffective transit system based from out of touch politicians. How can we create a better transit solution, when most of us don't even trust the decision makers?.. I honestly don't know what the right solution....but I do want to make an informed choice, this decision will alter my community, a place me and my children call home. I want a system that can connect our neighbourhoods, make commuting to work and school faster and more pleasant and most importantly positively impact one of the most forgotten parts of Toronto.
Note:
From the research I have done, I would like to further explore options that connects neighbourhoods through lrts and BRT lane, which canto Rapid Rail service (GO RER). I also like the concept of consolidating SRT and Sheppart east transit through Neptis. Maybe combining the two systems to connect Fairview mall, with Agincourt, STC, Centennial, Malvern, UTSC, Kingston Road and Kennedy Station.
Sheppard East + SRT (Malvern) + EELRT+ GO RER
Sheppard + SRT (Malvern) Hybrid
Souce:
http://www.neptis.org/publications/.../solution-scarborough-impasse-scarborough-wye
https://uttri.utoronto.ca/files/2015/03/Choices-for-Scarborough.pdf
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
I assume you’re someone who lives in Scarborough who takes transit to other places in Scarborough AND sometimes takes transit to North York/Downtown. It’s great that you’ve added to the conversation by admitting that the current plan is the worst option and something like a massive LRT network (some in their dedicated ROW and some on-street median) would be a good option. However (I don’t blame you), it is too late for any major “flip-flopping” to occur as the Line 2 East Subway Extension is already far in design and plan to start construction in 2020. Good for you for no longer being a lurker.