News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
A Message to Our Readers
 8.9K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
EarthCam Time-Lapse Documents Rafael Viñoly-Designed New Stanford Hospital Construction
 40K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
Resort Town
 5.1K     0 

Being one of those people that occasionally took the Spadina streetcar during my stint at U of T, I can give my opinion on it.

It has too many stops.

The streetcars are relatively frequent.

The service is VERY slow. Mind-numbingly snow.

Coming FROM Spadina station, it's great. Going TO Spadina station or TO Union station made me regret it every time.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Being one of those people that occasionally took the Spadina streetcar during my stint at U of T, I can give my opinion on it.

It has too many stops.

The streetcars are relatively frequent.

The service is VERY slow. Mind-numbingly snow.

Coming FROM Spadina station, it's great. Going TO Spadina station or TO Union station made me regret it every time.
Click to expand...

Same problem as on St. Clair, the NIMBY's whined and whined about removing stops and the TTC gave in to them. Also the lack of real transit priority is in the hands of the roads department and not the TTC, which is why the streetcars have to wait and wait at the red lights.
 
As slow as Spadina is, I don't see much way for them to cut stops and increase the speed of the line. Maybe the new LRVs will help somewhat. But other than that, what can you do? Removing a couple stops here and there won't save much time. And there's a lot of traffic lights on Spadina. I just think this streetcar will always be slow. College is similarly slow from what I remember, although I do think Spadina is the slowest. I wonder if the TTC has operating speeds by route?
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
As slow as Spadina is, I don't see much way for them to cut stops and increase the speed of the line. Maybe the new LRVs will help somewhat. But other than that, what can you do? Removing a couple stops here and there won't save much time. And there's a lot of traffic lights on Spadina. I just think this streetcar will always be slow.
Click to expand...

I think at least 4 minutes can be saved from Queen's Quay to Bloor from the all door loading in the new cars.
Most of that will be from the Queen, Dundas and College stops which take far too long to load due to crowding at the front of the car and people hauling granny-carts up the steps.
 
Last edited:
Also the lack of real transit priority is in the hands of the roads department and not the TTC, which is why the streetcars have to wait and wait at the red lights.
Click to expand...

The TTC and the Roads departments work for the same organisation. It is past time that this point was made to both of them.
 
I take the Spadina streetcar everyday. Love the thing, though it could handle the service being even more frequent. It feels slower than it is, during rush hour it can take a car 30+ minutes to do Spadina, whereas the 510 does it in 15.

This weekend the streetcars were replaced with buses as they were doing repairs on the tracks. On a SUNDAY (!) evening it took me 32 minutes from Queen to Bremner on the bus. Awful experience. ROW and streetcars are the way to go as far as I'm concerned... the ride is a lot smoother and quieter too, not to mention I have a lot more space whenever on a streetcar.
 
All-door boarding should help a little.

But even in its present form, Spadina streetcar is not bad. Yes it is slow, but it is a short route and nobody takes it end to end (there is subway for that).

I've taken it a few times from Bloor to Queen, it gets there in 12 - 14 min. Even if it was faster and the trip took 8 or 10 min, it would be a big difference percentage-wise but only a small saving in absolute numbers.

Plus, it is dependable. I can come to a stop and be sure that the streetcar will actually show up within a few minutes.

Queen streetcar has much bigger issues.
 
Last edited:
spider said:
The TTC and the Roads departments work for the same organisation. It is past time that this point was made to both of them.
Click to expand...

Somehow the Roads department always wins. And that department believes that its mandate is to move cars, while TTC vehicles are treated as nuisance.
 
Rainforest said:
Somehow the Roads department always wins. And that department believes that its mandate is to move cars, while TTC vehicles are treated as nuisance.
Click to expand...

Does this really surprise anyone though? I mean... "war on the car" and all that? This city has to be the most heavily urbanized autocentric city on the planet.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I wonder if the TTC has operating speeds by route?
Click to expand...

Here is the 2010 Service Summary, which has average speeds for all routes. I think it includes layovers because shorter routes tend to have lower average speeds than longer ones in similar conditions.

The average speed of the 510 ranges from 10.5km/h (PM Peak) to 16.8km/h (Saturday early morning).

In comparison, here are the ranges of other streetcars and downtown buses:

6: 10.1km/h (early evening) to 14.4km/h (Sun. evening).
94: 9.8km/h (AM Peak) to 16.2km/h (late evenings).
501: 13.5km/h (early evening) to 18.3km/h (Sun. early morning).
504: 11.3km/h (AM Peak) to 16.7km/h (Sun. late evening).
505: 11.3km/h (Sat. afternoon) to 16.1km/h (Sun. early morning).
506: 14.1km/h (PM Peak) to 19.8km/h (Sun. early morning).
509: 14.0km/h (PM Peak) to 18.6km/h (Sun. evening).
511: 11.8km/h (PM Peak) to 14.1km/h (evenings).
512: 9.9km/h (Sat. afternoon) to 16.7km/h (Sun. early morning).
 
Last edited:
reaperexpress said:
Here is the 2010 Service Summary, which has average speeds for all routes. I think it includes layovers because shorter routes tend to have lower average speeds than longer ones in similar conditions.

The average speed of the 510 ranges from 10.5km/h (PM Peak) to 16.8km/h (Saturday early morning).

In comparison, here are the ranges of other streetcars and downtown buses:

6: 10.1km/h (early evening) to 14.4km/h (Sun. evening).
94: 9.8km/h (AM Peak) to 16.2km/h (late evenings).
501: 13.5km/h (early evening) to 18.3km/h (Sun. early morning).
504: 11.3km/h (AM Peak) to 16.7km/h (Sun. late evening).
505: 11.3km/h (Sat. afternoon) to 16.1km/h (Sun. early morning).
506: 14.1km/h (PM Peak) to 19.8km/h (Sun. early morning).
509: 14.0km/h (PM Peak) to 18.6km/h (Sun. evening).
511: 11.8km/h (PM Peak) to 14.1km/h (evenings).
512: 9.9km/h (Sat. afternoon) to 16.7km/h (Sun. early morning).
Click to expand...
Not sure why you are using such an old summary. For St. Clair this means that the slow number you are using is for a replacement bus in a construction zone. If you look in the current summary, St. Clair (512) is 14.5 km/hr to 17.5 km/hr rather than 9.9 km/hr to 16.7 km/hr. And now that King is running it's full route again it's 14.2 km/hr to 17.5 km/hr.

I'm surprised they are so high. Particularly Spadina, that always feels like it's crawling. Is there some perception that it is moving slower than it is, as it's not mixed in traffic?

When you start looking at similar buses, they are often slow. The Parliament bus only goes from 10.4 km/hr to 12.4 km/hr. Standing at Parliament and Gerrard, the bus moves towards you like molasses down the hill, with streetcars speeding by in comparison.
 
510 feel slow because it spends so much time stopped at red lights and farside stops. It makes up for it because it runs between stops so quickly without traffic in the way. Signal priority would gain so much for this route. Signal priority and alldoor loading would probably cut 5 minutes off travel time, increase average speed above 20, and because the cars are being used so much more efficiently, it would be better to handle ridership despite rolling stock shortage.

Seriously though, I ride St Clair daily and when the lights cooperate it is such a fast route to take. Easily 50km/h between stops. I timed it once on such a day and we averaged 28. It's so frustrating.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top