[gweed123]

510 feel slow because it spends so much time stopped at red lights and farside stops. It makes up for it because it runs between stops so quickly without traffic in the way. Signal priority would gain so much for this route. Signal priority and alldoor loading would probably cut 5 minutes off travel time, increase average speed above 20, and because the cars are being used so much more efficiently, it would be better to handle ridership despite rolling stock shortage.

Seriously though, I ride St Clair daily and when the lights cooperate it is such a fast route to take. Easily 50km/h between stops. I timed it once on such a day and we averaged 28. It's so frustrating.

Signal priority on this route would be a god-sent. That and the elimination of a few stops. Get those two working, and the line would be a great line to ride.

 

[spider]

Why is it assumed that signal cycling that allows streetcars to go first is somehow a barrier to automobile traffic flow?

If the 3 cycles at an intersection retain their existing time allotments, why would the roads department, as charged, be so obstructive as to refuse to change the sequence to "Streetcar first"?

It seems possible that the Roads people have the power to do anything they like without outside input and are simply exercising that right because they can.

 

[Rainforest]

Why is it assumed that signal cycling that allows streetcars to go first is somehow a barrier to automobile traffic flow?

If the 3 cycles at an intersection retain their existing time allotments, why would the roads department, as charged, be so obstructive as to refuse to change the sequence to "Streetcar first"?

It seems possible that the Roads people have the power to do anything they like without outside input and are simply exercising that right because they can.

One theory is that if the left-turn phase follows the straight movement phase, the pedestrians might not clear the intersection before the left-turn phase starts, and thus might be endangered.

Of course, the problem is not unsurmountable. They could consider ending the pedestrian green light a few seconds earlier than the streetcars / straight moving cars green light, so the pedestrians clear the intersection before the left-turn phase starts.

 

[spider]

How about,

1- Streetcar green light only, pedestrians stop sign, 10 seconds or less if advancing to a far side stop.

2- Left turn green light only, pedestrians stop sign, 10 seconds

3- Straight through for streetcars, cars and pedestrians, 40 seconds

 

[Rainforest]

How about,

1- Streetcar green light only, pedestrians stop sign, 10 seconds or less if advancing to a far side stop.

2- Left turn green light only, pedestrians stop sign, 10 seconds

3- Straight through for streetcars, cars and pedestrians, 40 seconds

To me, that makes sense as well. Will only slightly increase the total cycle time.

 

[nfitz]

Signal priority on this route would be a god-sent. That and the elimination of a few stops. Get those two working, and the line would be a great line to ride.

Though I can't see how signal priority will work unless there are less streetcars on the line ... at times the car can't go now when the light is green, because there are already 2 cars sat at the platform.

 

[Asterix]

To me, that makes sense as well. Will only slightly increase the total cycle time.

While I totally support anything to speed up the streetcar, when you say "only slightly increase the total cycle time", it actually is a 20% increase, even though you are only talking about 10 seconds. That might be something the roads department and the 'stop the war on cars' crowd would have a problem with.

I think though when people talk about 'signal priority' for transit, they don't necessarily mean giving transit first go in the cycle, but rather give transit the ability to have the signals work further in their favour - such as an intersection sensing a transit vehicle approaching and then either extending an existing green or speeding up the onset of the next green so as to allow the transit vehicle to sail right through.

This is a lot more straightforward when you have a major street crossing minor streets but can be a lot more complicated when two majors cross. Can one make an argument as to why a 510 CLRV should get priority at the expense of a 501 ALRV at Queen and Spadina for example?

 

[gweed123]

Though I can't see how signal priority will work unless there are less streetcars on the line ... at times the car can't go now when the light is green, because there are already 2 cars sat at the platform.

Is the Spadina line POP? I can't remember off the top of my head anymore. If not, that would be one way to speed it up for sure (and when/if TC is actually built-out, the concept of POP will be much less foreign to people). The '2 cars already in the platform' may be a problem, but I think that's more a symptom of bunching as opposed to too many vehicles on the line. You get 3 streetcars in a row, and then none for 5 or so minutes. Having advanced signal priority that detects when the vehicle is coming, and adjusts the light timing to adapt to it, I think would make the line flow a lot smoother. The Transitway in Ottawa uses this, they have a loop in the ground placed a few metres up the road from the intersection, and the bus trips it at such a point that, if the bus is travelling the speed limit, the light will turn in time for the bus to arrive. Granted this would be more difficult to implement because the lights are much closer together than on the suburban Transitway, but the concept is still the same.

 

[gweed123]

This is a lot more straightforward when you have a major street crossing minor streets but can be a lot more complicated when two majors cross. Can one make an argument as to why a 510 CLRV should get priority at the expense of a 501 ALRV at Queen and Spadina for example?

Streetcar scramble! haha. Semi-seriously, implement a streetcar-only lane just before Spadina along Queen, so that when the scramble light goes green, any streetcars that are there go through the intersection within those 10 seconds allocated. Obviously this wouldn't work for regular cars, but if the streetcar drivers are trained on how to navigate it, it could speed up the process a bit. Assuming the streetcar drivers learn how to work it so that they don't T-bone eachother, it could work.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Why is it assumed that signal cycling that allows streetcars to go first is somehow a barrier to automobile traffic flow?

If the 3 cycles at an intersection retain their existing time allotments, why would the roads department, as charged, be so obstructive as to refuse to change the sequence to "Streetcar first"?

It seems possible that the Roads people have the power to do anything they like without outside input and are simply exercising that right because they can.

The roads department is concerned about vehicles, not people. They don't care whether a vehicle is carrying only one person, five people, 40 people, or even 100 people, they care about vehicles.

I have seen road counters, the hoses laid across lanes of traffic, to count vehicles. They cannot count the number people in a vehicles.

 

[spider]

The roads department is concerned about vehicles, not people.

We all suspect this to be the case but what we are looking for here is a solution by tweaking the existing traffic signal capabilities to everyones advantage not just another opportunity to descend on all car drivers like a poodle on a pork chop.

You and some others really ought to take off your blinkers and try to address the whole picture. Did you notice that the price of oil has been sliding lately?

 

[GraphicMatt]

The roads department/TTC thing just seems to be a symptom of bureaucracy. In big organizations sometimes departments end up at odds with one another for reasons no one can remember. Work happens in silos and goals sometimes aren't the same from department to department.

All it takes is for a mayor to really give it some attention and force some unity on the issue, but that hasn't happened yet. Ford's management style would actually be very effective at dealing with these kinds of matters.

 

[reaperexpress]

Not sure why you are using such an old summary.

Sorry, it just happened to be the first one I found.

 

[SlickFranky]

I think he's saying that the data the roads dept uses to measure volume doesn't factor-in transit very well. If their stats and targets are all based on vehicle numbers it's hard for them to to approach signal-priority effectively when it comes to buses and streetcars or car-poolers or anything else for that matter. Maybe what they need to do is incorporate TTCs GPS tracking and ridership stats into their data. If their data started treating each streetcar as 40 vehicles it would skew their stats pretty badly, enough that real signal priority would become an actual priority to them.

 

[Dan416]

Streetcar scramble! haha. Semi-seriously, implement a streetcar-only lane just before Spadina along Queen, so that when the scramble light goes green, any streetcars that are there go through the intersection within those 10 seconds allocated. Obviously this wouldn't work for regular cars, but if the streetcar drivers are trained on how to navigate it, it could speed up the process a bit. Assuming the streetcar drivers learn how to work it so that they don't T-bone eachother, it could work.

WTH are you actually banned?