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Wow. One Tory pollster's rogue poll. The situation being anywhere near 1984 is an NDP fantasy. Mulroney got over 50% of the popular vote. Right now, Harper's sitting below what Martin got in '04 and below what he got last election. Sure, Dion's got a low approval rating, but as much as people want to spin this, none of the polls have shown any shift in popular support for parties since the last election. There was a rogue poll out a few weeks ago that showed the Liberals on track for a majority government. So what?

Anyway, the only pollster worth trusting is SES/Nanos, and all of their polls have shown a very tight race. I'm not suggesting that the Liberals (Dion in particular) are doing well. I think Dion should have forced an election a long time ago, and waiting has made him look weak. Even if the Tories keep embarrassing themselves as they have been doing, it all gets cancelled out by the public perception of Dion's weakness for not forcing an election. It's not fair, but it's reality.
 
^ I agree with you completely actually. Not enough people like the Conservatives to give them a majority, even when the Liberals have been disgraced by scandal. A strong Liberal leader could capitalize on that and start rebuilding Liberal support, something Dion has failed miserably to do.
 
I would reckon any of the other potential leaders were in charge of the liberal party.

There would have been an election by now.
 
The situation being anywhere near 1984 is an NDP fantasy.

I never said it was the same as 1984. I said the Libs were polling around the same numbers as '84, but that will translate into a lot more seats because their vote is more concentrated now. Of course there was no Green party then, no Bloc either and Mulroney actually had a lot of charm at that time.

Anyway, the only pollster worth trusting is SES/Nanos, and all of their polls have shown a very tight race.

Nanos boasted about getting 2006 exactly right, but he just got lucky.
 
Uh, Nanos also got 2004 exactly right, and the provincial election exactly right. I'd say that's a little more than luck.

Incidentally, I've started reading his occasional blog and watching his interviews on CPAC. He's one of the most astute Canadian political observers I've seen. It's definitely well worth a look.

I disagree with the claim that the only safe Liberal seats outside Ontario--I'm sorry, outside the GTA are Cartierville and Mount Royal. I'm not quite sure where to begin. I don't believe that a three point drop since last election will mean that dozens of seats that the Liberals won with margins of 10 percent or more are at risk. All of PEI? Newfoundland where they're furious with Harper and the NDP has no presence? A half dozen other seats in Montreal, including Westmount and the West Island? Wascana? Kitchener and Waterloo? Most of London? Kingston? The North? Vancouver Centre?

I fear we may be witnessing the cardinal sin of the Torontonian: failing to remember that there's an Ontario outside the GTA.

The difference between today and 1984 explaining the much higher number of seats for the Liberals has nothing to do with concentration. It has to do with the fact that there are two more major parties. Of course, on a percentage basis, their vote will drop. At the levels the Tories are polling, they would never have had a hope of winning an election in the three party days.


Here's a different poll from a couple days ago:

Liberals (33%) Edge Closer to Tories (35%)

March 25, 2008

For more information, contact:
Darrell Bricker
Recent Polls & Research

Ottawa, ON – A new Ipsos Reid poll conducted exclusively for CanWest News Service and Global Television reveals that Stephane Dion’s Liberals (33%) are edging closer to Harper’s Conservatives (35%), placing these two leading parties in a statistical tie. Gaining two points since early March, and rising steadily since the middle February, the Liberal Party is narrowing the gap between itself and the reigning Tories.

Nationally, the NDP under Jack Layton is receiving support from 13% (down 2 points) of decided voters, while the Green Party has 8% support (down 1 point). Seven percent (7%) of Canadians remain undecided.

Within Quebec, the Bloc continues to lead, enjoying the support of 39% of decided voters (up 3 points), placing itself well ahead of the second-place Liberals (26%, no change), and the third-place Conservatives (22%, down 2 points). The NDP has the support of 9% of Quebecers, while the Green Party trails with just 3% support.

In seat-rich Ontario, the Conservatives (33%) continue to trail the Liberals (43%) by a significant margin, but still find themselves considerably ahead of the New Democratic Party (15%) and the Green Party (6%).

These are the findings of an Ipsos Reid poll conducted on behalf of CanWest News Service and Global Television from March 18 to March 20, 2008. For the survey, a representative randomly-selected sample of 1000 adult Canadians was interviewed by telephone. With a sample of this size, the results are considered accurate to within ±3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20, of what they would have been had the entire adult population of Canada been polled. The margin of error will be larger within regions and for other sub-groupings of the survey population. These data were weighted to ensure that the sample's regional and age/sex composition reflects that of the actual Canadian population according to Census data.
 
Within Quebec, the Bloc continues to lead, enjoying the support of 39% of decided voters (up 3 points), placing itself well ahead of the second-place Liberals (26%, no change), and the third-place Conservatives (22%, down 2 points). The NDP has the support of 9% of Quebecers, while the Green Party trails with just 3% support.

I don't see why Ipsos is any more reliable a pollster than Angus Reid.

Second, as for Quebec, there was a CROP poll with 1,000 respondents which has the Bloc at 30%, Conservatives at 29%, Liberals at 20% and NDP at 15%.
I'd trust a large province-wide sample of Quebec over a national poll with a subset of Quebec numbers. This is the second CROP poll with these kind of numbers.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080330/libs_dion_080330/20080330?hub=Canada
 
They're not. That's not my point. Two polls came out within days of one another which both came to the exact opposite conclusion. That should probably lead us to avoid definitive claims like "The Liberals are collapsing."

That being said, I'd put a little more faith into Ipsos than Angus Reid. They've had a lot of rogue polls.
 
I personally like Dion, but don't understand why he isn't popular in Quebec. What is going on in Quebec that he isn't surging there? You would think he'd be stronger in Quebec City as he's from there, right?

Dion's base appears to be in Ontario mostly, but he should theoretically be helping bring up numbers in Quebec. Any insight?
 
Sadly, Dion must lose an election before he says farewell.

In the mean time, the Conservatives holier-than-thou sheen will continue to rapidly wear off. There are no more taxes that can be cut without reducing government spending in a significant manner, and since spending has increased under the Conservatives, they will have to learn how to drive in reverse.


To make the messiah Justin Trudeau look better than he would otherwise.

He will never lead.

Dion's base appears to be in Ontario mostly, but he should theoretically be helping bring up numbers in Quebec. Any insight?

It' not Dion, it's the Liberal party that is popular in Ontario.
 
I'm not qualified to understand the dynamic in Quebec as its the province I know least about in all of Canada. I even know more about the history of Newfoundland than Quebec. LOL

But to just say its not Dion, its the Liberal party doesn't explain it. Anyone really know a lot of detail to understand whats going on?
 
He will never lead.

I agree - Justin Trudeau comes across as a total flake to me! Whatever one thinks of his father, by the time he was Justin's age he was one of Quebec's leading intellectuals and a prominent political and trade union activist. Justin did a little stint at some private school on the West Coast, did an MA in geography...and now we're supposed to think he's like the Second Coming of the Christ!

He was Gerard Kennedy's most prominent supporter...and Gerard's greatest claim to fame at this point is sticking the Liberals with Dion!
 
I'm not qualified to understand the dynamic in Quebec as its the province I know least about in all of Canada.


Don't feel too bad. I don't think anyone really understand the political dynamics of Quebec. That would include Quebeckers.
 

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