[xmyth_]

cool. totally needed.

 

[blitzraj1]

Anyone know why there isn't much commercial verticality in the Distillery district? Some buildings are four or five stories tall but as far as I know there's nothing up there.

 

[xmyth_]

Anyone know why there isn't much commercial verticality in the Distillery district? Some buildings are four or five stories tall but as far as I know there's nothing up there.

Likely because they’re heritage buildings which would be too costly, if not impossible to upgrade for the traffic needed for retail.

The conceit has always been that they won’t allow chains in here, so you’re looking at smaller businesses that are geared more to tourists than residents. Very niche.

Case goods used to have studios on the second floor and up, which was always tenuously trafficked because 1. It was either rickety elevator or stairs and 2. It was always unclear whose studios were open for visitors and who wasn’t. It felt more like a school (ironically) than shops. Alas, it’s a real school now.

The stone building with its offices - I recall doing a tour once for doors open, and those stair cases were surprisingly narrow and I could see how daunting it might feel to traipse up them for movie goods.

Ironically, I remember years back when GotStyle was at King & Brant and on a taller floor- it had enough cachet for folks where it felt worth the effort to go up. Now, GotStyle here is in the loft to make room for the Eataly pop-up and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone make the trip upstairs.

 

[christiesplits]

Question for locals: Is this the busiest Christmas Market to date? I was in Corktown last weekend and was taken aback by the car traffic coming from the district.

 

[CityPainter]

Question for locals: Is this the busiest Christmas Market to date? I was in Corktown last weekend and was taken aback by the car traffic coming from the district.

I live nearby. After a few years where the traffic seemed better, due to the pandemic and stricter traffic control measures, this year it is horrible again. Whatever traffic and parking changes they made since last year did not work.

Yesterday I saw multiple cars making illegal right turns on red from Mill St to go north on Parliament, one nearly striking pedestrians in the crosswalk. The paid duty cop standing on the corner watched this unfold, slack-jawed and useless.

Over on Cherry St at Front Street, multiple vehicles were illegally turning into the streetcar right-of-way -- again, some cutting off pedestrians crossing legally in the crosswalk in order to do so.

In the Canary District, cars had parked along both sides of Cooperage Street, leaving only a tiny channel down the middle barely wide enough for a car. A parking cop was on hand, feasting on the bounty as she ticketed every car parked illegally on the east side, which was clearly signed with multiple no-parking signs.

A few blocks west, a dozen SUVs jammed Princess St south of Front, all trying to go north, all revving their engines and accelerating impatiently, clearly irritated after trolling the area in a futile search for parking.

Throughout, these festive scenes were accompanied by the jolly caroling of blaring car horns, as all the would-be festival goers obstructed each other.

All these sights were enjoyed in one short walk, which I sorely regretted. We're over a month into this now, and there's still nearly two weeks til Christmas.

 

[xmyth_]

Honestly I don’t think this is the busiest IN the market. There’s been years where it’s ridiculously, immovably packed. And there’s been plenty of room to move about. Hell, when you consider they’ve got huge lines outside Cluny and on Trinity/Main for photos and yorkie burrito. There’s room inside. Maybe they’re doing a good job of limiting tickets.

Now, OUTSIDE the gates is another thing. I feel like this is the third year in earnest since we lost surrounding parking lots, so that’s likely the overflow. This time next year Cherry Place will take up the lot at Cherry & Front and maybe we start seeing occupancy for Goode. Unsure of what the timelines are for East Bayfront where I’ve seen other “pop-up” lots, so it’s gonna get super tight.

So I dunno, do drivers consider this event as accessible as Taste Of The Danforth years back? The only other thing I can think of that’s insane to drive to, that people insisted on driving to.

 

[PinkLucy]

I never drive to these events and can't understand why someone would unless you had mobility issues.
Then again, I'm a big fan of transit, cycling, and walking whenever possible.

 

[T3G]

I think that the popularity of this event, and the Distillery generally, shows how starved we are in Toronto for pedestrian only communal areas. We can only dream of any new development in the city that matches something like Village Square in Burlington, even if the latter is too small and could easily benefit from being 5x bigger. If there was more than one market, held in places such as Nathan Phillips Square or the Harbourfront, the Distillery one might not be such a zoo every year.

That being said, having had the privilege of visiting a true Christmas market in Prague this year, the Distillery is by comparison really weak. The venue is good, but everything is insanely overpriced and it's so corporate and gauche (the fact alone of it being a controlled access event with a paywall most of the time may be necessary to manage crowds, but it's no less horrible). Why - please God, why - is a Christmas tree doubling up as a billboard for Dior?!

 

[xmyth_]

The bigger issue is going to be whether the distillery changes to cater to residents or continues as a full on tourist attraction. Until that subway shows up in 10-20 metrolinx years, every surface lot around us is going to densify with new residents, and it won’t get any easier to drive here. Folks who live here are going to keep the place a float from January-April, so what will happen?

Instead of putting an attraction in Case Goods, they brought in a long term lease for Boreal College. Instead of basic retail, or keeping the rental space for the fermenting cellar, they put in Illuminarium. I’m also a bit fascinated by the Eataly pop-up supplanting GotStyle, cuz it’s as close to grocery as residents have gotten since Fresh ‘n’ Wild. Curious if there’s long term roots being planted there.

Ground level businesses for Cherry House and Goode will be an interesting sign of things to come we getting fancy tapas and coffee or a dry cleaners and pharmacy?

 

[rdaner]

^I started working in Canary in the Fall so have a few relevant thoughts. The entire south east corner of downtown is exploding with new residents and though slower new retail/services are opening to provide broader options such as the Leo’s Marche on Front which Distillery residents use. The independent convenience store on Front in Canary is also filling in a lot of gaps and is doing a roaring business. And an interesting note that the dramatic reduction in parking the attendance has gone up so people are adapting. Finally the surrounding streets are getting organized for the Xmas season so expect the stalls to double in number next year as they spread north on Trinity and east on Front.

 

[xmyth_]

Stalls north on front?

Anyone have eyes on that proposed 99 year lease for the strip of land the distillery wanted up there? They were mentioning a diner or bike something or other?

Canary might get organized with whomever buys Aviary to do a full fledged market on Front, but I can’t see the Distillery expanding into space they can’t control.

 

[dufferin1]

Question for locals: Is this the busiest Christmas Market to date? I was in Corktown last weekend and was taken aback by the car traffic coming from the district.

Ontario Line can't come soon enough

 

[Jonny5]

I never drive to these events and can't understand why someone would unless you had mobility issues.
Then again, I'm a big fan of transit, cycling, and walking whenever possible.

They are not from Toronto and use Uber to get there. I drove past on Saturday and there were 100 people huddled together all along Parliament Street, and I thought at first it was waiting for the Parliament bus, but that made no sense. It was clear these were people at Uber pick up points. That's how they are all going there because the kind of people who go to tourist traps never take public transit in their lives.

 

[CityPainter]

I never drive to these events and can't understand why someone would unless you had mobility issues.
Then again, I'm a big fan of transit, cycling, and walking whenever possible.

They are not from Toronto and use Uber to get there. I drove past on Saturday and there were 100 people huddled together all along Parliament Street, and I thought at first it was waiting for the Parliament bus, but that made no sense. It was clear these were people at Uber pick up points. That's how they are all going there because the kind of people who go to tourist traps never take public transit in their lives.

A lot of people do take transit there, the 504 and 503 are very busy along King. But a very significant percentage do not. I see many SUVs loaded with families or groups heading to and from. The constant drumbeat of bad media about the TTC probably isn't helping, though to be honest, if thousands more tried to take the 504 it would become completely unusable quickly, both for festival goers and locals who rely on it. As for rideshares, for the last few years they closed Mill St. to traffic completely, which made things feel calmer, but this year they opened it specifically so festival goers and locals could get picked up and dropped off. But rideshares are some of the most notoriously bad drivers in terms of being impatient or disobeying signage, so it adds to the chaos.

I'm complaining a lot, how about a solution: the Distillery should rent a big lot somewhere else near the Gardiner/DVP (don't ask me exactly where) and charge a optional add-on fee on festival tickets that lets you park there that includes a FREE shuttle to the Distillery, running on a continuous loop. Close all the streets immediately around the Distillery and publicize the fact that there is NO parking in the area. And make sure the shuttle drivers are not idiots. Or, plan B, move the whole damn festival to the CNE where they have parking lots sufficient to accommodate these crowds.

 

[slicecom]

They are not from Toronto and use Uber to get there. I drove past on Saturday and there were 100 people huddled together all along Parliament Street, and I thought at first it was waiting for the Parliament bus, but that made no sense. It was clear these were people at Uber pick up points. That's how they are all going there because the kind of people who go to tourist traps never take public transit in their lives.

I’m not saying Uber isn’t a huge problem for traffic in the area, but what you say about people not taking public transit there is so incorrect it’s crazy. The streetcars are absolutely PACKED with people heading to the Distillery, and foot traffic along the Esplanade from Union to the Distillery District is so constant in December that drivers often have to wait quite a while for an opening in the crowd to proceed.