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JasonParis
Moderator
Any further news on what the hold-up on Old Flame's opening is?
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Isn’t it open? I walked by a couple weeks ago and it was open and people were inside.
JasonParis
Moderator
Private parties I heard, but for some reason can't sell to the public yet.
jxmyth_
Active Member
Is this a thing?
rdaner
Senior Member
One step closer to becoming a complete neighbourhood!
elcorrerador
Active Member
Thanks for sharingOne step closer to becoming a complete neighbourhood!
christiesplits
Senior Member
How as attendance at last month's Christmas Market, compared to other years? It was absolutely packed in previous years, even with the ticketing.
rdaner
Senior Member
Taken 22 February.
jxmyth_
Active Member
They’ve installed skylights
Vanalla
Active Member
Unsure if this is the right place to discuss this, but I couldn't find another thread in the forum for it.
As the neighbourhood develops, are there plans to expand the Christmas Market East towards Tannery Road, and then North towards Front as those parking lots fill in? Especially given the pedestrian-first design of Maple House and other developments in the area.
According to some news sites, the market hosted 700,000 visitors in 2021 over its 6-week run. It seems like the most obvious solution is to expand the footprint to ease crowding, and then add more vendors to make the affair more attractive. No amount of Google-Fu I attempt yields any info on this. Anyone have an inside scoop?
As the neighbourhood develops, are there plans to expand the Christmas Market East towards Tannery Road, and then North towards Front as those parking lots fill in? Especially given the pedestrian-first design of Maple House and other developments in the area.
According to some news sites, the market hosted 700,000 visitors in 2021 over its 6-week run. It seems like the most obvious solution is to expand the footprint to ease crowding, and then add more vendors to make the affair more attractive. No amount of Google-Fu I attempt yields any info on this. Anyone have an inside scoop?
CityPainter
Active Member
So you're suggesting expanding the market through the Canary District / West Don Lands neighbourhood?
Interesting idea, but I would be surprised to see that happen. The Distillery District is privately owned and operated, with its own security, and has the ability to control entrances and exits, which is necessary for ticketing and liquor licensing. The Distillery is also permanently pedestrianized, so there's no need for street closures during festivals. The Winter Village runs 7-days-a-week for 6 weeks and I can't think of any precedent in Toronto for a festival closing down public streets for more than a few days, and even that is controversial and challenging (ie. notice Taste of the Danforth is not happening this year).
I also think the Victorian-Dickensian-cobblestone aesthetic is pretty key to the lure of the Winter Village. I love the Canary District but its architecture is very modern.
jxmyth_
Active Member
The thing that I'm wondering is with all the new residents piling into the area in coming years, whether the Christmas Market- er, Winter Village will be able to continue in its current form. As we've seen- parking has disappeared, more residential traffic will occur and incur more complaints. If you look at the moves within the Distillery, they opted to split from Artscape (after their contract ended) and put in a permanent tenant with Boreal College, and they've turned their biggest event space into Illuminarium. So will it pivot from large special events to residential needs? Obviously the market/village makes too much money to stop- but maybe it will transform.
Vanalla
Active Member
Perhaps not that far, but something more along the lines of this:
Where the current outline is marked in blue, and my theory of how it could expand marked in red once the corresponding developments finish. This is obv not based in any hard fact except my takes on where the neighbourhood is and how it's changing.
To the best of my knowledge, there's only one road (Cherry St) in this enclosure, and it wouldn't necessarily need to close to pedestrians, just have added precautions from the additional pedestrian traffic crossing the streets. Hell, they could even erect a temporary pedestrian bridge the same way some markets in Europe do. There's still reasonably enforceable 'borders' so the market can manage ticketing, and most of the streetscape in this boundary is pedestrianized in each building's respective development applications.
On the European note, Holiday Markets across the pond are never ticketed affairs, are much more densely packed with a variety of local vendors (not just corporate reputation management). They have lots of people but it's never crowded the same way Toronto's is. They're pleasant places to explore, which should be the goal here.
Expanding the existing market like the above would roughly double its footprint. To @jxmith_ 's point, I don't think the Winter Village will ever stop as it's a huge revenue generator, even if all the parking in the area disappeared. (To my understanding, Green P will manage some public parking in underground lots in the canary district.) The Distillery District organization seem to be at a real crossroads in terms of where the Village will go next - stay the current size and lose out on a great opportunity, or grow to meet the demand.
Finally, I understand that the industrial chic aesthetic is important for the character of the market, but also essentially all nearby developments are folding in red brick/cobblestone hardscaping anyway, so it would be a pretty seamless integration. It won't be the 'core' of the distillery, but again, a decision must be made to address these insane crowds.
Toronto can't keep going on growing like it has while having the same sized amenities. We should have competing Winter Villages to meet the insane demand of these places, last time I went (2019) it was so densely-packed the crowds were beginning to take on fluid characteristics, not dissimilar to a pre-crowd-crush feeling.
jxmyth_
Active Member
Giving it some more thought, I would say it’s never going to expand. I think most folks don’t realize just how much control Distillery management has beyond their private grounds- so there’s no way they would want an adjacent event they couldn’t control or make money off. And I imagine they wouldn’t want someone drifting off their brand and possibly ruining the experience.
I’m sure even the random corporate sample wagons (I think Tim’s parked on Trinity last year) only do so by paying Distillery folks. Otherwise the paid “parking enforcement” would have never let them get close. Maybe if the city leases them the side lot off Trinity for their “diner” concept” they’ll have something there.
Consider though that after two years of COPs Donuts having a presence, they were replaced by a DRC run booth that copied their format right down to the toaster- the event is not about community. They’re not about to team with Canary. I could almost imagine them sticking their nose into the long proposed hotel trying to get a stake.
I’m sure even the random corporate sample wagons (I think Tim’s parked on Trinity last year) only do so by paying Distillery folks. Otherwise the paid “parking enforcement” would have never let them get close. Maybe if the city leases them the side lot off Trinity for their “diner” concept” they’ll have something there.
Consider though that after two years of COPs Donuts having a presence, they were replaced by a DRC run booth that copied their format right down to the toaster- the event is not about community. They’re not about to team with Canary. I could almost imagine them sticking their nose into the long proposed hotel trying to get a stake.