[TheTigerMaster]

I heard that Atlanta's MARTA transit has been a complete failure. Apparently not many people use it is

Anyways Toronto has more than 20 km of subway under construction with more to come very soon. The situation will improve.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I heard that Atlanta's MARTA transit has been a complete failure. Apparently not many people use it is

Anyways Toronto has more than 20 km of subway under construction with more to come very soon. The situation will improve.

That subway is going to Vaughan. That's not really for Toronto.


MARTA is in the same situation that we are. No Funding.

 

[JGHali]

I come from Halifax, so Toronto is by far the best city I have ever lived in (with Vancouver a close second).

But I do think the citizens of this city have been betrayed by their "leaders" time and time again. Classic example is the waterfront and how it was cut off by an expressway and a wall of condos. All for short-term profits and self-interest.

My only other complaint is the lack of basic warmth. Still not used to being ignored, avoided, and feeling like a ghost in community gathering spots and parks. When I hear the talk about New Urbanism and bringing people together, I cynically think yeah, another place for Torontonians to gather and ignore each other.

I understand - big city, yadda, yadda, yadda. But the day to day street interactions could probably be better than it is. Not sure if all cities are so cold and standoffish.

"Why did the Torontonian cross the road?"
"To avoid having to talk to an acquaintance."

I haven't lived in TO year-round for a very long time, though I'm back several times a year to visit family and friends (and obviously keep close tabs on goings-on or I wouldn't be on this site). I moved to St John's a year ago for work, and before that lived in south end Halifax for 5 years (previously did much of my growing up in the Valley...). It always strikes me in TO how people often seem socialized to avoid contact or interactions with strangers, to the point of unfriendliness. I don't know that this is inherent to big cities, and TO is actually friendlier at the microcosm than the likes of Vancouver.

On the other hand, if St John's is friendlier, it's far more parochial and even insular. A lot of Nova Scotia is similar (to "CFAs") but Halifax is a remarkably open and pleasant place to live. Most of my life revolved around walking from place to place on the Peninsula or, more recently, taking the Woodside ferry. It's rare in North America to have a city so compact and walkable, to the point that using transit isn't even all that necessary at times. When I'm in Toronto, it's easy enough to get around downtown on foot, but trying to get around on the TTC near, say, Wilson and Bathurst is something of a nightmare. Routes are unreliable, and the car-oriented development means that essential stores and services can be a long walk away. Downtown/midtown is better, but there remains far too much mono-residential development.

So if I were to complain, it would mainly be about the built form of the post-war suburbs. The

That subway is going to Vaughan. That's not really for Toronto.

I'm pretty sure TheTigerMaster meant the Eglinton LRT...

 

[toonderly]

That subway is going to Vaughan. That's not really for Toronto.

1) The subway will go both ways, to and from Vaughan.

2) Vaughan drivers contribute to congestion in Toronto. Having them get on the subway in Vaughan will relieve congestion in Toronto.

3) Four out of the six new stops are within Toronto and will improve commutes within Toronto (especially to York U).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That subway is going to Vaughan. That's not really for Toronto.


MARTA is in the same situation that we are. No Funding.

Haha the TYSSE isn't 20 km.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

"Why did the Torontonian cross the road?"
"To avoid having to talk to an acquaintance."

I haven't lived in TO year-round for a very long time, though I'm back several times a year to visit family and friends (and obviously keep close tabs on goings-on or I wouldn't be on this site). I moved to St John's a year ago for work, and before that lived in south end Halifax for 5 years (previously did much of my growing up in the Valley...). It always strikes me in TO how people often seem socialized to avoid contact or interactions with strangers, to the point of unfriendliness. I don't know that this is inherent to big cities, and TO is actually friendlier at the microcosm than the likes of Vancouver.

On the other hand, if St John's is friendlier, it's far more parochial and even insular. A lot of Nova Scotia is similar (to "CFAs") but Halifax is a remarkably open and pleasant place to live. Most of my life revolved around walking from place to place on the Peninsula or, more recently, taking the Woodside ferry. It's rare in North America to have a city so compact and walkable, to the point that using transit isn't even all that necessary at times. When I'm in Toronto, it's easy enough to get around downtown on foot, but trying to get around on the TTC near, say, Wilson and Bathurst is something of a nightmare. Routes are unreliable, and the car-oriented development means that essential stores and services can be a long walk away. Downtown/midtown is better, but there remains far too much mono-residential development.

So if I were to complain, it would mainly be about the built form of the post-war suburbs. The



I'm pretty sure TheTigerMaster meant the Eglinton LRT...

1) The subway will go both ways, to and from Vaughan.

2) Vaughan drivers contribute to congestion in Toronto. Having them get on the subway in Vaughan will relieve congestion in Toronto.

3) Four out of the six new stops are within Toronto and will improve commutes within Toronto (especially to York U).

Haha the TYSSE isn't 20 km.

my bad.

 

[King of Kensington]

I wish Torontonians would stop using the words "world class" when discussing the problems of the city. Especially laughable is when right-wing conservative and extremely parochial suburban councillors use it. An NFL team or having subways rather than LRTs doesn't make us more "world class" (whatever that means!)

 

[chloe22]

People complain in general a lot more than before - I came over here from Vancouver and haven't experienced an uptick of complaining. Toronto seems pretty nice.

 

[King of Kensington]

Glad to hear that.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

People complain in general a lot more than before - I came over here from Vancouver and haven't experienced an uptick of complaining. Toronto seems pretty nice.

welcome to the city.

 

[CityPainter]

Three observations:

1. Many Canadians who hate Toronto in fact seem to just hate cities, and all the things that come with them, like density, congestion, etc. Most of the typical criticisms (there's nowhere to park, the rent/real estate is too expensive, the streets are overcrowded, people are too busy to chat to strangers on the street) will never be "solved" unless you turn the city into a suburb. The "cities are dirty and bad, rural is wholesome and good" dichotomy is deeply ingrained in the Canadian psyche, especially for those who grew up in the 60s and 70s when Toronto had much less to offer.

2. We Torontonians ourselves are often guilty of living in a bubble in which we imagine that all our problems are unique to us. However, when I travel to other cities, including NYC and Boston, I always make a point of flipping through local newspapers in the hotel or coffee shop. And guess what? They're also filled with people complaining about too many new condos, complaining about poor transit, complaining about city council gridlock, complaining about police funding, etc. We are not alone. What's frustrating is when we refuse to learn from solutions that other cities have already implemented successfully.

3. Some complaining is valid, because identifying a problem is the first step to solving it. However, there's a definite tendency in Toronto harp endlessly about negatives while ignoring or discounting all the positives. There are many things Toronto does great, and there are many benefits to living here, which is why the city is constantly growing and changing. If Toronto was half as terrible as the naysayers make it out to be, why are millions of people choosing to live, work and visit it?

 

[NorthYorkEd]

Many Canadians who hate Toronto in fact seem to just hate cities, and all the things that come with them, like density, congestion, etc.

Agree. I get very defensive when friends or family say "gah, how do you stand living there?" or "I hate Toronto". Some of them have never even spent any time here, they just repeat what they've heard others say. Of course, that is merely code for what they really hate, which are all the things you mentioned plus the fact that there are so many racially and culturally diverse people living here. Sometimes I think that is the real root of their "issue" with this city.

Almost everyone back home in NS, when they found out we were moving here BY CHOICE, shook their heads and said we were crazy.

 

[gabe]

Three observations:

1. Many Canadians who hate Toronto in fact seem to just hate cities, and all the things that come with them, like density, congestion, etc. Most of the typical criticisms (there's nowhere to park, the rent/real estate is too expensive, the streets are overcrowded, people are too busy to chat to strangers on the street) will never be "solved" unless you turn the city into a suburb. The "cities are dirty and bad, rural is wholesome and good" dichotomy is deeply ingrained in the Canadian psyche, especially for those who grew up in the 60s and 70s when Toronto had much less to offer.

They hate every city except their own. Go to Vancouver or Montreal and tell people you're from Toronto, you will usually get a response like, "I have been to Toronto, nice place but i couldn't live there! Too dirty, overcrowded, horrible traffic. it's so much better here than Toronto blah blah blah"

 

[CityPainter]

Of course, that is merely code for what they really hate, which are all the things you mentioned plus the fact that there are so many racially and culturally diverse people living here. Sometimes I think that is the real root of their "issue" with this city.

I also suspect this plays a role, either consciously or subconsciously, but of course it's nearly impossible to quantify or prove. I also think that a similar subtle racism or xenophobia is at the heart of many people's reluctance to take public transit. When I hear people proclaim they don't like to be in close quarters with "weird smelly people" I think that's often code for "people who aren't like me."

 

[ksun]

Toronto...Love It Or Leave It

why do people keep saying that as if it is by any stretch a reasonable argument?

Love it or leave it? It is not like every person can simply move to his dream city without any paper work. Can someone simply move to Los Angeles, or Paris, or Tokyo if they like?
Within Canada, and if you like to live in a big city, it is not there are a lot of options.

Toronto has its flaws and everyone has the right to not like certain aspects of it.