News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
 6.4K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 33K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
 3.2K     0 

CityStay

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
286
Reaction score
390
With great respect, some of you are both numb to what Toronto has to offer because your used to it; and many of you are also very well traveled (as am I) and therefore imagine every tourist being from NYC or London or such, rather than Buffalo or Manchester.

Obviously many of us are also archi-tourists thinking only in terms of particularly interesting buildings or piazzas; I would again suggest that this is not necessarily reflective of many tourist interests, nor would it necesarily be of interest to anyone who lived in a city with hundreds of great buildings of a particular vintage, and a dozen more more spectacular public squares.

I've had the pleasure of showing someone from Germany around before, and she was utterly taken by Toronto.

She first remarked on our architectural diversity. Amusing to locals, I know, but to her, she was used to mostly low and midrise buildings of only 2 or 3 vintages.

To her seeing Fort Book, Victorian Homes, Commerce Court North and the CN Tower was entirely exotic; and of course Nathan Phillips Square cause she saw it on Star Trek TNG, LOL

As noted by Condvo, St. Lawrence Market is often a hit, having been rated the world's best such market by National Geographic.

She was even more enthralled by the ravines and the vastness of Lake Ontario; and Rouge Park; she spent 2 days criss-crossing every bike path in the City she could manage in the time available.

The ROM's aboriginal/first nations section was something she hadn't really seen the likes of and quite enjoyed; and lets not forget the roller coasters of Canada's Wonderland, among the world's very best selections.

Toronto has much to work on; its public realm is improving but has a very long way to go; our modern architecture is ....uneven and often (but not always) uninspired.

But its musical theatre scene is second-largest on the this continent and third largest in the English speaking world.

You can all stop reducing Toronto to Ripley's or TEC, not that either are bad for what they are; but because our City is so much more; even if it can and should be better still.

Mindless boosterism is obnoxious; but I'm not such a fan of mindless self-flagellation either.
I don't know what isolated village in the Alps your German friend was from but, ok, glad her first visit to a city went well. Tell her to check out Berlin sometime. Or Hamburg, Munich.. I'm guessing she didn't fly out of Frankfurt?

The thing that has always struck me about Toronto is that nothing truly remarkable has ever occurred here. Good/bad/otherwise, there are virtually no reminders that any significant event has ever happened. Ok, the Skirmish of 1812 , but we all saw how much those 'celebrations' engaged the public.

There have been sport celebrations - but they happen annually in whichever city happens to win whatever championship. Weather events - but they happen everywhere too. The Pan Am Games? Talk to Santo Domingo. I mean.. WTF?

No Olympics, World Fairs, massive social upheavals, existential crisis, just.. nothing. You can walk around all day and never point to anything and say "Oooh! That's where THAT happened!" because nothing ever happened there and nothing of note has ever really happened anywhere in Toronto.

I guess when you transform from "Most Boring City In The World" to "No Longer The Most Boring City In The World" then that can be seen of as a victory of sorts but still..

I find it disconcerting.

Maybe that's why a Toronto Museum has never really taken off - what would you museate that isn't of simply local, nostalgic interest? What if there is nothing memorable to commemorate?

And maybe that's why it's so damned easy to destroy everything and build investorbox condos everywhere. I mean, who cares? Nothing of great import has ever happened on that corner, or on any corner for that matter.

Might as well build a condo..
 
Last edited:

condovo

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
6,454
^^^ And that's a big part of Toronto's appeal and why people are flocking to live here. It's a place to get away from the world's drama and raise a family. Does it make for an interesting tourist destination? Clearly, that's up for debate.
 
Last edited:

WislaHD

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
9,924
Reaction score
9,257
Funnily enough, the location of our one major event has recently turned into a condo.

That being said, I don't think being a stable city within a stable country has hurt our tourism numbers.

The History of Toronto page is pretty lengthy, and scrolling through it there are quite a few things that would be neat to document and highlight to the public through exhibit. To name a few: our First Nations and early histories (including our lost rivers and streams), the founding and early days of the city (including the War of 1812 and Upper Canada Rebellion), our rapid industrial growth (Hogtown anyone?), the Toronto Fire, the expansion of the city borders and the consolidation of city services (including the TTC), the Orange Order and immigration history to the city in general, both World Wars and their impact on residents, Hurricane Hazel, the post-war 20th century economic development and its evolution on our cityscape (so many ways to take this, from evolution of our subway system, to our skyline, to the lost buildings demolished for parking, to the legacy of Eaton's in downtown). This is before getting into celebration of noteworthy individuals who hailed from or came to call Toronto their home, including numerous Canadian prime ministers.

I grant that this is small beans to other cities with thousand-year histories, but I think there is plenty reason to celebrate what has happened here. People will care because they care about Toronto, period. Being such a young city, I see a Museum of Toronto as also a clean canvass for the recording of events of future years.

BTW, the Raptors Parade may well be one of the largest gatherings of humans in recorded history. That is pretty significant. :p
 

CityStay

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
286
Reaction score
390
^^^ And that's a big part of Toronto's appeal and why people are flocking to live here. It's a place to get away from the world's drama and raise a family. Does it make for an interesting tourist destination? Clearly, that's up for debate.
This is true, but people are flocking to any Western country that will take them and they don't give a shit if it's Toronto or Madrid or Christchurch - they're desperate..They don't ask ask "Which skyline do you prefer?" in refugee camps.

There's no 'Little Germany", "Little Norway", "Little Sweden", "Little Netherlands" here for good reason - why would they accept a downgrade?

And if you don't think there's any drama then look at the burgeoning povery stricken, crime-ridden, enthnic enclaves that are emerging and the resulting gun crime.

We're becoming the typical American city that we've always aspired to be - without the accompanying mythology/identity.
 

CityStay

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
286
Reaction score
390
Funnily enough, the location of our one major event has recently turned into a condo.

That being said, I don't think being a stable city within a stable country has hurt our tourism numbers.

The History of Toronto page is pretty lengthy, and scrolling through it there are quite a few things that would be neat to document and highlight to the public through exhibit. To name a few: our First Nations and early histories (including our lost rivers and streams), the founding and early days of the city (including the War of 1812 and Upper Canada Rebellion), our rapid industrial growth (Hogtown anyone?), the Toronto Fire, the expansion of the city borders and the consolidation of city services (including the TTC), the Orange Order and immigration history to the city in general, both World Wars and their impact on residents, Hurricane Hazel, the post-war 20th century economic development and its evolution on our cityscape (so many ways to take this, from evolution of our subway system, to our skyline, to the lost buildings demolished for parking, to the legacy of Eaton's in downtown). This is before getting into celebration of noteworthy individuals who hailed from or came to call Toronto their home, including numerous Canadian prime ministers.

I grant that this is small beans to other cities with thousand-year histories, but I think there is plenty reason to celebrate what has happened here. People will care because they care about Toronto, period. Being such a young city, I see a Museum of Toronto as also a clean canvass for the recording of events of future years.

BTW, the Raptors Parade may well be one of the largest gatherings of humans in recorded history. That is pretty significant. :p
Like I said, this is all very interesting to a local, mind numbingly boring to anyone else because, you know, these things have happened in pretty much EVERY city.. often events that are much more transformative.. believe it or not. Although I have to admit: the evolution of the "subway system" will surely astound millions! "First, we built Line One. Then, we built Line 2" (inspirational music)..

And the Raptors crowd claim? - complete bullshit. Just Google "any city who has ever won a sports championship of any kind". or "When the Pope comes to town".
 
Last edited:

condovo

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
3,685
Reaction score
6,454
This is true, but people are flocking to any Western country that will take them and they don't give a shit if it's Toronto or Madrid or Christchurch - they're desperate..They don't ask ask "Which skyline do you prefer?" in refugee camps.

There's no 'Little Germany", "Little Norway", "Little Sweden", "Little Netherlands" here for good reason - why would they accept a downgrade?

And if you don't think there's any drama then look at the burgeoning povery stricken, crime-ridden, enthnic enclaves that are emerging and the resulting gun crime.

We're becoming the typical American city that we've always aspired to be - without the accompanying mythology/identity.

A lot of people from overseas are *choosing* to live here. They're not all desperate refugees with nowhere else to go. And Toronto's still a lot safer than every single major American city. It's nowhere near the 1970s-South-Bronx hellhole you're making it out to be.
 

CityStay

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
286
Reaction score
390
A lot of people from overseas are *choosing* to live here. They're not all desperate refugees with nowhere else to go. And Toronto's still a lot safer than every single major American city. It's nowhere near the 1970s-South-Bronx hellhole you're making it out to be.
Well I guess people will just have to ask their recently arrived, Scandanavian neighbour rather than the odd arrival from China, Philippines or India that they may encounter.

And don't worry about murders in Toronto, Chicago has way more! So everything is totally OK! Right?

Because the U.S. is the ONLY place we should ever compare ourselves to. There are no other countries.

Less than the U.S. we win! The rest of the world? Who gives a fuck with their way lower numbers. We beat the U.S.!

That's all that matters.
 
Last edited:

CityStay

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
286
Reaction score
390
I'm not saying that I don't want people to come here - from anywhere - you're totally welcome!

I'm just trying to say that people from from places like Norway, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands etc. come to Toronto and look at it as somewhat as a backwards place, 20-30 years or so years behind the times.

Unless they're 'skyline fans' in which case , they don't care about actual liveability, they just care about "Skyline!" "Clusters!" "Blobs of Buildings!!" "Canyons!"

Showing off their skyline pics to their skyline freak buddies on the internet. (that peculiarity that separates them from the other 99.9% of the population)

But then I wonder why they'd come to Toronto, a city with no buildings anywhere near the Top 100 in the world, if all they really care about are "Skylines!!"

Very strange, but with Toronto being as ugly as it is at street level, somewhat understandable.
 
Last edited:

Deaf_Torontian

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
111
Reaction score
45
City:
Toronto
Hmmm really? Just off the top of my head...

CN Tower
Ripley's Aquarium
Roundhouse Park/Train Museum
ROM
AGO
Fort York
Science Centre
Centre Island/Waterfront
Casa Loma
Hockey Hall of Fame
Kensington Market
St. Lawrence Market
Bata Show Museum
Mink Mile
High Park
Scarborough Bluffs
Canada's Wonderland
LegoLand
Toronto Zoo
Aga Khan Museum
Black Creek Pioneer Village
Chinatown (spadina)
Greektown
Little Italy
Gardiner Museum
Woodbine Racetrack/Casino

Seasonal:
CNE
Taste of the Danforth
Caribana
Pride
TIFF
Wet&Wild

Lots of other festivals and smaller museums I've left off but you get the idea.
No shortage of things to do in Toronto.

If I am tourism? I would go to;
CN Tower (my last time was like 1990 between 1992, I can't remember)

Ripley's Aquarium (I never been there before)

Roundhouse Park/Train Museum (if you mean near CN Tower? I would love go there because I never been there before)

ROM (I love history)

Fort York (I never been there before but I want go there because I think british is awesome because they put lots bomb in hide and when american arrive with lots of troops but bomb blow them out! make me laugh so hard! I think british is good job! mean many died was american more than british in fort york battle? make me laugh so hard and proud of myself because my great-great-great grandma was born york, upper canada in 1833 and I am proud to be 7th generation and my daughter is half aboriginal so she proud to be 8th generation!)

Science Centre (I was kid and school trip to there, I did there but I am 41 years old, why I should go there? I noticed there most kids but if science centre have more update and more better than 1980's? I will go there for once for summer 2020)

Centre Island/Waterfront (Waterfront is not tourism but Island ... oh yeah, good to see skyline from island and take a photo how much skyline getting better every year make me imaging that Toronto is my new God of the World! sound like silly dream of my own imaging! lmao)

Hockey Hall of Fame (I should go there because I never been there before but I am not hockey lover because I love baseball and basketball, I always watch blue jays and raptors game everyday but maple leafs or nhl? hard for me to try watch but I don't want to watch because NHL don't care about Canada and any of Canada team even can't get Stanley Cup since 1993? Blue Jays did it in 1992-1993 and Raptors did it this year, what wrong with Maple Leafs? like 1967? come on? but I realized it ... NHL really hate Canada so much? or all Canadian players just don't care about Canada? that how I stopped to watch hockey since 2015 because NHL is WASTING MY TIME but if ... Blue Jays get another World Series in few years from now? I would say WHAT SHAME with NHL).

Kensington Market (I been there many times but I know this place where filming been here like Police Academy or The Fly in 1980's because I was there and saw it they filming it when I was very young kid like 5 years old when I saw police academy or 7 years old when I saw the fly in Kensingon Market)

St. Lawrence Market (I been there many times for deaf mayfest)

Canada's Wonderland (I must go there because I been there since I was like 5 years old in 1983 and I been there like more than 20 times then I been stopped it like since 1998 because I don't want go there but I heard many many many many new rides then I think I should go there on summer 2020)

Toronto Zoo (I would love to go there because I heard many people protests against every animals to free, I do not agreed with all protests because if animals back to wild, I say 80% of them will never be alive for few months, wild mean killer and zoo mean protect, protests just not get it)

Chinatown (spadina), Greektown and Little Italy

CNE (I should go there, I never been there before, I heard CNE many times and I did been there when there is no event but when CNE open and I was not there but my friends told me that CNE is fun!)

TIFF (I love go there so badly but I hate is SEPTEMBER but one day, I will there if my favourite actress there? I will go there and meet her)

mean I did been there and I will go there again in the future;
CN Tower
Ripley's Aquarium
Roundhouse Park/Train Museum
ROM
Fort York
Science Centre
Centre Island/Waterfront
Hockey Hall of Fame
Kensington Market
St. Lawrence Market
Canada's Wonderland
Toronto Zoo
Chinatown (spadina)
Greektown
Little Italy
CNE
TIFF

I never been there but I still NOT interesting go there;
AGO
Casa Loma
Bata Show Museum
Mink Mile
High Park
LegoLand
Aga Khan Museum
Black Creek Pioneer Village
Gardiner Museum
Woodbine Racetrack/Casino
Taste of the Danforth
Caribana
Pride
Wet&Wild

anyway I noticed anyone forgot to add?
Young-Dundas Square (I must go there)
Path (I love Path underground to avoid heat wave during summer time or avoiding too cold during winter time but enjoy around path for many years, I still go path anytime what I want but I think many tourism love go path)
Eaton's Centre (I must go there)
Yorkdale Shopping Centre (I must go there)
Lower Bay Station (Not everyday, not every year but rare ... whenever TTC want to open for tour once for few year, right? but if Lower Bay Station door open for tour again? I MUST GO THERE! I MUST! I MUST! Lower Bay Station is our true abandoned station history! like New York City have abandoned old city hall station tourism at https://www.nytransitmuseum.org/OldCityHall/ so my opinion ... Lower Bay Station need museum so badly and tour is worth it! for Toronto Subway museum, it's my opinion and if anyone disagree with me? it's ok)
Scotiabank Area (for Raptors game or Maple Leafs game)
Skydome (Sorry, I still called Skydome because this is original name but we called stupid rogers centre just like stupid name anyway for Blue Jays game)
BMO Field (for CFL game or any game)

I did said Scotiabank or Rogers Centre or BMO Field ... because I did go to Ottawa, Montreal, Vancouver, Buffalo, Detroit and Minneapolis, they even not have any game but I did went there and take a picture a building with myself (selfie) mean I already touch this building but I did not enter building .... lol
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ADRM

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
5,854
Reaction score
19,553
I'm not saying that I don't want people to come here - from anywhere - you're totally welcome!

I'm just trying to say that people from from places like Norway, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands etc. come to Toronto and look at it as somewhat as a backwards place, 20-30 years or so years behind the times.

Unless they're 'skyline fans' in which case , they don't care about actual liveability, they just care about "Skyline!" "Clusters!" "Blobs of Buildings!!" "Canyons!"

Showing off their skyline pics to their skyline freak buddies on the internet. (that peculiarity that separates them from the other 99.9% of the population)

But then I wonder why they'd come to Toronto, a city with no buildings anywhere near the Top 100 in the world, if all they really care about are "Skylines!!"

Very strange, but with Toronto being as ugly as it is at street level, somewhat understandable.

Toronto things a smattering of Copenhagen residents mentioned to me, completely unprompted, last week while I was there:
> Bellwoods Brewery (and the Ossington strip)
> The Islands
> The “beautiful skyline”
> The proliferation of downtown greenspace
> The Brickworks
> The Raptors (“it looked like you had more people at the parade than live in all of Copenhagen”)
> The Victorian architecture

Toronto has lots to improve upon, to be sure (and we’d do well to have both a municipal government that gives a real shit about making that happen and a solid round of private benefactor support that many European cities have m enjoyed) but it’s just silly to say that it has nothing to offer people who come from places we often look up to.
 

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
23,134
Reaction score
58,667
Well I guess people will just have to ask their recently arrived, Scandanavian neighbour rather than the odd arrival from China, Philippines or India that they may encounter.

And don't worry about murders in Toronto, Chicago has way more! So everything is totally OK! Right?

Because the U.S. is the ONLY place we should ever compare ourselves to. There are no other countries.

Less than the U.S. we win! The rest of the world? Who gives a fuck with their way lower numbers. We beat the U.S.!

That's all that matters.

You have officially reached the status of Troll.

An endless litany of Toronto-bashing posts, in a Toronto forum; most of which are incredibly ill informed if not outright wrong.

I won't bother dismantling each and every statement; some of which are personal preferences you're entitled to; even if they are based on misinformation and an exceedingly limited world view.

On safety, The Economist ranked Cities from around the world on Safety earlier this year:


Toronto came in at #4; when you look at the subset of 'personal security' which is violent crime, #5. Again, that would be Toronto is the 5th safest city, in terms of personal security in the world.

As to some of the rest; I happen to love Paris, and I'm partial to Vienna (the food notwithstanding).............

But ya know, if I stopped and thought about it......why do I love those two places? Why do I enjoy spending time there?

Its actually never occurred to me even once that I want to go to Paris, because they've had a few revolutions there.

Do I really want to think about literal heads rolling down the streets from the Guillotine? I'll take a pass thanks. I can't say that imagining any particular march/parade down the Champs Elysees sounds any more captivating.

To me Paris, is great restaurants; its sitting on a patio in the Bastille district; taking in an Opera, strolling along the Seine; its being immersed in a culture familiar enough not to shock, yet tangibly different than in my home city, Toronto.

Vienna, is quirky stairs, lanes and mews; a car-free City centre, the ring road of elegant trees/greenspace; that now seemingly kitchsy Ferris Wheel that provides you a great view of the City.

Both cities owe much to their architecture. Both have a few singular grand buildings that Toronto has no real compartor for because of its young age, and never having been home to a royal family or such.

On the other hand......Paris' Grand Boulevards, about which many great things can be said; are all of 1880s vintage; and all both a near complete monolith of six-storey, nice, buildings with characteristic Juliet balconies. Its really nice, for the first 2,4,6 blocks, until you realize you no longer remember what block your on, because they all look the same.

Just because its a different same than you might be used to in Toronto doesn't mean it doesn't get boring to the locals.

Le Defense is really the only area in Paris outside of its Le Corbusier designed suburbs to depart into mid or late 20thC architecture writ large.

Both, are arguably failures, with much better versions of the same ideas right here in Toronto.

That's not Paris-bashing. I love the place.

But ya know what I miss when I'm away from Toronto?

Among the world's very best Global cuisine. London certainly has some, and New York might be a competitive rival; but Toronto stands out for its exceptional variety of authentic Thai, Italian, Ethiopian, Pakistani, Greek, Chinese, Italian and French food, amongst others.

Done better in every case by their home countries, but very rarely by anywhere else on a large scale. I dare you to find Italian food in Vienna as good as you can get here? Don't even bother trying to find great Thai food in Paris.

I also miss the amount of nature, something you clearly place no premium on.

Rouge Park is the 13th largest urban park on the planet. In truth, when you consider that list includes cities like Scottsdale, El Paso, Anchorage etc. It would be 8th if you edited out the relatively smaller urban centres.

There is really nothing comparable in Western Europe. Lee Valley in greater London is 10,000acres but really isn't all that comparable to the Rouge.

I won't go ad naseum extolling Toronto's virtues, of which there are many; because I neither feel the need to defend this City against a troll who would clearly rather live elsewhere (and really should); nor do I wish to indefinitely pause my criticisms of how it could be so much better.

But one must periodically pause to set the record straight.

Oh, PS, my friend was from Munich.
 
Last edited:

yyzhyd

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
417
Reaction score
85
I'm not saying that I don't want people to come here - from anywhere - you're totally welcome!

I'm just trying to say that people from from places like Norway, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands etc. come to Toronto and look at it as somewhat as a backwards place, 20-30 years or so years behind the times.

Unless they're 'skyline fans' in which case , they don't care about actual liveability, they just care about "Skyline!" "Clusters!" "Blobs of Buildings!!" "Canyons!"

Showing off their skyline pics to their skyline freak buddies on the internet. (that peculiarity that separates them from the other 99.9% of the population)

But then I wonder why they'd come to Toronto, a city with no buildings anywhere near the Top 100 in the world, if all they really care about are "Skylines!!"

Very strange, but with Toronto being as ugly as it is at street level, somewhat understandable.


While I understand some people have well deserved appreciation for European cities, people forget that those cities for example, were covered with overhead wires as well until many of them were utterly destroyed by WW1 & WW2. The rebuilding of those cities allowed planners to effectively begin with a clean slate... allowing them to bury those wires. Additionally, the population of Oslo, Copenhagen AND Amsterdam is ~1 million less than Toronto and those cities are hundreds of years older than our fair city.

As far as backward... European cities have at least a 500 yr head start on Toronto. So if we've narrowed the gap to 20-30yrs that's pretty impressive. ;)
Toronto definitely can look to Europe for ways to improve but also to places like Tokyo, Seoul, etc. but you can't look at things in a vacuum and say "Toronto is backward", "there's no stuff in Toronto" , "Toronto has no history", "Toronto's transit sucks".

How much taxation are people willing to accept to fund transit? How much of history and wealth of Europe is predicated on the conquest and pillaging of others? How many of the antiquities on display in their museums were looted from Africa and Asia?

Canada's history is different, and while it may seem boring, ugly, backward to some... it's our own and we should embrace it.
 

MoeugeneA

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
5
Reaction score
2
City:
Ottawa
Cities are different and unique in their irrespective ways. Having lived in European countries and Canada, I can say that there are certain special characteristics in every country that make it stand out from the rest. It all depends on your expectations, needs and wants.
 

sixrings

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
5,231
Reaction score
2,656
I'm not saying that I don't want people to come here - from anywhere - you're totally welcome!

I'm just trying to say that people from from places like Norway, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands etc. come to Toronto and look at it as somewhat as a backwards place, 20-30 years or so years behind the times.

Unless they're 'skyline fans' in which case , they don't care about actual liveability, they just care about "Skyline!" "Clusters!" "Blobs of Buildings!!" "Canyons!"

Showing off their skyline pics to their skyline freak buddies on the internet. (that peculiarity that separates them from the other 99.9% of the population)

But then I wonder why they'd come to Toronto, a city with no buildings anywhere near the Top 100 in the world, if all they really care about are "Skylines!!"

Very strange, but with Toronto being as ugly as it is at street level, somewhat understandable.
I thought the Scarborough subway extension conversation was depressing but you somehow took Toronto to a whole new depressing level. Ill never understand why people who complain so much about a city continue to live in it. I guess some people like wallowing in their own pity.
 

MoeugeneA

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
5
Reaction score
2
City:
Ottawa
LOL exactly.. if you don't like it move
 

Top