[edm13]

Downtown library was a gong show today of druggies, a guy telling me he’d slit my throat, another guy checking my bike to see if he could steal (3 ulocks and a chain deterred ) and countless drugged up and violent people all over 102 ave.

My friends from the suburbs got to experience exactly what they expected

Yeah my friend was at the museum (I guess they had some sort of free admission yesterday), with his wife and toddler. This was his exact text to me “We’re at the museum right now for their free day. Our downtown is so fricken nasty lol. The amount of homeless is nuts. They are literally everywhere. “

Safe to say he wouldn’t be back with his family any time soon

 

[IanO]

When you have a Downtown that people generally do not have to come to, it better be extraordinary, safe and clean.

Time to raise the bar.

 

[The_Cat]

I’d like to see open drug use addressed.

 

[HappyJazzz]

When you have a Downtown that people generally do not have to come to, it better be extraordinary, safe and clean.

Time to raise the bar.

If Edmonton had a downtown that was extraordinary, safe and clean, people might generally be coming to it.

Quite the catch 22 innit?

 

[HappyJazzz]

I’d like to see open drug use addressed.

Time to make opium dens great again?

In all seriousness though, I think it's time to admit that prohibition is a failed social policy, and has only led to even more destructive narcotics being developed and trafficked.

Cat's out of the bag though, and there are no easy fixes...

Still important to remember that many abuse problems, regardless of the flavor, are rooted in despair. Not much point in tackling the symptoms without addressing the source too.

Sadly, I don't think current Canadian society is up to solving either.

 

[edm13]

a as

Time to make opium dens great again?

View attachment 600677

In all seriousness though, I think it's time to admit that prohibition is a failed social policy, and has only led to even more destructive narcotics being developed and trafficked.

Cat's out of the bag though, and there are no easy fixes...

Still important to remember that many abuse problems, regardless of the flavor, are rooted in despair. Not much point in tackling the symptoms without addressing the source too.

Sadly, I don't think current Canadian society is up to solving either.

this is a good point and a lot of it starts in the class room at an early age. I have many teachers in my family, and they lack support for all the kids with issues in their class rooms. They can already point out which kids will likely fall off the wagon and end up as future problems in society. It would be cheaper to spend money early on to try and get them into a better position, then have to take care of them for the lest of their lives

 

[Greenspace]

I’d like to see open drug use addressed.

89% of Insight survey said that open drug use should not be allowed. That goes across all political spectrums. You can support people while still banning open drug use -- give people an option, if they don't take it then there are consequences. This is exactly what the Public Spaces Bylaw proposed that Council did not pass. I'm not sure what the amended version will say.

 

[thommyjo]

The bigger issue here is creating safe/warm appropriate spaces for some and having zero tolerance in other spaces such as a public library.

My sister took my nephew there once this spring, which he loved, but she won't step back in that building/area due to the issues they saw and had around them That's sad.

Exactly. I’m tired of the “where are they supposed to go?!” And “we need to address root causes” people.

Like of course.

AND,

how about we keep the only fricken place downtown that regularly has kids visiting it safe from gangs and meth heads?? I can think of hundreds of other “better places to go”. Does it solve the problem long term, no. But it also doesn’t create dozens of other problems related to allowing criminals and drug users to mix with innocent citizens in taxpayer funded spaces that should be safe and useable (libraries, transit, arts areas, parks).

The progressive ideologues that helped get us here need to start seeing themselves as as radical and brainwashed as far righters. None of this is sensible or ok.

 

[HappyJazzz]

Exactly. I’m tired of the “where are they supposed to go?!” And “we need to address root causes” people.

Like of course.

AND,

how about we keep the only fricken place downtown that regularly has kids visiting it safe from gangs and meth heads?? I can think of hundreds of other “better places to go”. Does it solve the problem long term, no. But it also doesn’t create dozens of other problems related to allowing criminals and drug users to mix with innocent citizens in taxpayer funded spaces that should be safe and useable (libraries, transit, arts areas, parks).

The progressive ideologues that helped get us here need to start seeing themselves as as radical and brainwashed as far righters. None of this is sensible or ok.

So beyond moving the rug we sweep problems under to another room, what would you propose as a solution then?

I can think of a couple, but they certainly would not fly with the current judicial industry in place.

Although I will say that it would be most unfortunate if while there was an ambulance drivers strike, the royal Alec had to close for a week due to some sort of mold outbreak, and during that time a van loaded with all of EPS' narcotic evidence room contents was left unattended near Churchill square...

It'd be a real damn shame if the problem took care of itself like that.

 

[thommyjo]

So beyond moving the rug we sweep problems under to another room, what would you propose as a solution then?

I can think of a couple, but they certainly would not fly with the current judicial industry in place.

Although I will say that it would be most unfortunate if while there was an ambulance drivers strike, the royal Alec had to close for a week due to some sort of mold outbreak, and during that time a van loaded with all of EPS' narcotic evidence room contents was left unattended near Churchill square...

It'd be a real damn shame if the problem took care of itself like that.

Lots of smart people have been working on solutions for a long time. So I’m not trying to propose some silver bullet. It’s all the things: housing, shelters, job training, social services, crime prevention, border patrol for narcotics, education, the foster system, parole, legal system, bylaws, healthcare, etc etc etc.

BUT

until we see the slow progress over many years that all those will require, IF they even start moving in the right direction, let’s minimize the negative impacts in the short term.

0 tolerance for drug use in and around all libraries, transit, squares, major downtown parks, and all highly trafficked areas.

It sucks to have parking lots in boyle street filled with tents. AND it’s also a way better solution that’ll a dozen drugged out zombies in the Churchill connector. No one likes homeless people in industrial areas near yellowhead. AND it’s way better than major retail streets downtown with 50x the pedestrian traffic and 30x the property tax revenue.

There’s no ideal spot. It’s sucks we have to triage it. But I think a simple dashboard of 1) people traffic, 2) kids/elderly use, 3) taxpayer investment, 4) property tax revenue, 5) city image need to be considered as interim considerations if this takes 20 years to fix.

Gravel parking lots where no one walks and few businesses exist are exponentially better than train stations and libraries. So tired of extremist progressives creating false equivalencies or having hollow “compassion”.

 

[The_Cat]

City council audience member escorted out during report on vulnerable Edmontonians

City staff's update on its supports for vulnerable Edmontonians ahead of the upcoming winter was disrupted by an audience member.

edmontonjournal.com

 

[HappyJazzz]

Lots of smart people have been working on solutions for a long time. So I’m not trying to propose some silver bullet. It’s all the things: housing, shelters, job training, social services, crime prevention, border patrol for narcotics, education, the foster system, parole, legal system, bylaws, healthcare, etc etc etc.

BUT

until we see the slow progress over many years that all those will require, IF they even start moving in the right direction, let’s minimize the negative impacts in the short term.

0 tolerance for drug use in and around all libraries, transit, squares, major downtown parks, and all highly trafficked areas.

It sucks to have parking lots in boyle street filled with tents. AND it’s also a way better solution that’ll a dozen drugged out zombies in the Churchill connector. No one likes homeless people in industrial areas near yellowhead. AND it’s way better than major retail streets downtown with 50x the pedestrian traffic and 30x the property tax revenue.

There’s no ideal spot. It’s sucks we have to triage it. But I think a simple dashboard of 1) people traffic, 2) kids/elderly use, 3) taxpayer investment, 4) property tax revenue, 5) city image need to be considered as interim considerations if this takes 20 years to fix.

Gravel parking lots where no one walks and few businesses exist are exponentially better than train stations and libraries. So tired of extremist progressives creating false equivalencies or having hollow “compassion”.

Soooo... A bunch of stuff that's already been tried and clearly isn't working, and some rug shuffling.

Got it

 

[thommyjo]

Soooo... A bunch of stuff that's already been tried and clearly isn't working, and some rug shuffling.

Got it

View attachment 601296

You got solutions?

Lots of it works with the right coordination and execution. But the best efforts in one area can’t cover all the problems in another.

What is clear to me though is that safe supply/SIS’s have not worked and shouldn’t be encouraged. “Housing” isn’t a silver bullet. Encampments can’t be tolerated. Policing and social workers must be more responsive. Legal changes around parole and sentencing have hurt us. Theft and drug use need to continue to be seen as crime, not framed as desperate acts of victims (those are outliers).

 

[HappyJazzz]

You got solutions?

Lots of it works with the right coordination and execution. But the best efforts in one area can’t cover all the problems in another.

What is clear to me though is that safe supply/SIS’s have not worked and shouldn’t be encouraged. “Housing” isn’t a silver bullet. Encampments can’t be tolerated. Policing and social workers must be more responsive. Legal changes around parole and sentencing have hurt us. Theft and drug use need to continue to be seen as crime, not framed as desperate acts of victims (those are outliers).

Well I largely agree with what you've said there, and while it would be tough to call them solutions until tested, I do think a few of the ideas I've raised in this thread deserve consideration.

1. Expand legalization of less harmful drugs

Narcotics like cocaine and opium look downright quaint compared to the current street choices of meth and fent.
It would provide a safer, less addictive option for casual users, and help disempower the black market further.

2. Stop treating repeat overdosers

If the first really bad time doesn't scare users straight and into treatment, then the problem may not be fixable.
People who are repeatedly consuming to that point are essentially committing passive-agressive suicide.
Canada has a MAID program. From a moral standpoint what makes one method of checking out better than the other?

3. Press repeat violent offenders into penal battalions

Again, if corrective measures are refused or ineffective, put those violent tendencies to good use and send them to the eastern front!
Far better than having them roam the cities terrorizing the citizenry.

These may sound somewhat extreme, but like I said before, what's being done now clearly isn't working...

 

[IanO]

Walking around Lethbridge today I've seen 3 pairs of beat officers who were patrolling their Downtown.

That's more than I have seen in my last many trips to Edmonton.

It's time to bring beat patrol back.