JuliallThat
Active Member
I will say it does seem like there's less sketch in my area (Alberta Ave) than there was a couple years ago. Thanks for sharing the load y'all!
(It was really bad a couple years ago, now it's just normal bad.)
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- Thread starter Stevey_G
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(It was really bad a couple years ago, now it's just normal bad.)
SarcasticMarmot
Active Member
We are literally paying EPS to spread the problem throughout the city. This was the inevitable result of the stepped up enforcement and new encampment policy from last year. Having cops move people along doesn't make them go away, it just makes them go elsewhere. Same thing with transit, kicking people out of the LRT stations doesn't make them disappear, it just sends them elsewhere. We can talk about enforcement all we want but if someone is doing so badly that they are doing drugs on the street in the middle of winter do you really think the threat of jail is a deterrent? Someone in that state of well being is not going to stop and think "Hmm, I really want to do drugs/petty crime but I won't for fear of going to jail". Edmonton Remand is already the largest prison in Canada.
At the end of the day, a segment of our society is going to be doing so badly we have to house them somewhere. Be it our public facilities, shelters, social housing, hospitals, or prisons. And with the UCP cuts to social services, surge in housing costs, and collapse of unskilled employment it is a growing segment.
For the record, I am in favor of consequences for violent/destructive behavior. I just believe we need to be smart about what does and does not work.
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David A
Senior Member
It doesn't, but hopefully it increases the political will to deal with these things if they can't be dismissed as problems concentrated in one area we can avoid or ignore, which I feel has been the prevailing way of thinking in the past.
Rapperswill
New Member
I agree with you that removing people from one place to another does not necessarily make them go away.
Being homeless and addicted to drugs is not a criminal offence in Canada.
Being homeless and addicted to drugs is not a provincial offence in Alberta.
Being homeless and addicted to drugs is not a bylaw offence in Edmonton.
If I’m wrong on any of the above points, please let me know.
So what could be the solution here if we can’t take people’s freedom away for being homeless and addicted to drugs? Can we offer them shelter, food and treatment? Is the City of Edmonton already doing something like this and if so what’s the success rate?? How likely is it for a drug user to accept treatment and how likely is it for a homeless person to accept shelter? I’d love to know.
I mean to be honest it’s arguable that there’s even a problem here in the first place. I say this because things are still “operational” in our city. Yeah I saw what I saw when I stayed near Kingsway mall but what do the rest of the Edmontonians really think? It’s business as usual for everybody. Every city in North America is battling with homelessness and drug addiction. What makes Edmonton any different??
I only see this being an actual issue if there’s some kind of a mass exodus of businesses and people start losing jobs left right and centre.
TAS
Senior Member
Just a reminder of the homelessness stats.
JNO1
Active Member
I hope that someone among the "Powers That Be" finally figure out that what they are doing isn't working. Or, more accurately, what they are doing is one of the failures of our time.
TAS
Senior Member
I believe the province denies the numbers are as high as that figure shows - that could be part of the problem.
And that number is likely higher.
JNO1
Active Member
By "Powers That Be", I meant more than just the GoA.
David A
Senior Member
Recent city councils have made a big deal about reducing homelessness. If they are not sufficiently embarrassed, the chart showing how quickly it is rising should do it. It should be pulled out when they are out campaigning for reelection.
Of course they will blame the province and the province will blame them and maybe this explains why things are they way they are. If our governments spent less time blaming each other and more working together to solve problems, maybe we would make more progress.
Gronk!
Senior Member
Disproportionate number of inmates released in Edmonton: report
Inmates released from prison disproportionately call Edmonton home afterwards, according to a recent report to city council. It’s partly because Edmonton is home to a large number of correctional facilities: Edmonton Institution, the Remand Centre, and various medium- or minimum-security...
edmonton.citynews.ca
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David A
Senior Member
Good question - Why are inmates from a prison near Calgary being driven two hours being driven two hours to be released in Edmonton?Disproportionate number of inmates released in Edmonton: report
Inmates released from prison disproportionately call Edmonton home afterwards, according to a recent report to city council. It’s partly because Edmonton is home to a large number of correctional facilities: Edmonton Institution, the Remand Centre, and various medium- or minimum-security...
I feel Edmonton is to some degree the dumping ground for Alberta's social problems, but unfortunately neither the City News article or the linked post by Councilor Janz actually answers the question.
So back to you City News and Councilor Janz - who drove these people here and why? Any further information you have would be appreciated and is needed.
_urbanite
Senior Member
Michael Janz thinks the answer is more funding so we can properly care for the criminals.
No Michael, the answer isn't more funding, it's CLOSE SOME OF THE DAMN JAILS!
We're sick and tired of this.
Start with the ancient Grierson Institute downtown. Are we the only major city in Canada that still has a federal jail downtown?
No Michael, the answer isn't more funding, it's CLOSE SOME OF THE DAMN JAILS!
We're sick and tired of this.
Start with the ancient Grierson Institute downtown. Are we the only major city in Canada that still has a federal jail downtown?
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SarcasticMarmot
Active Member
The fact you are targeting Grierson shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Grierson has a max capacity of a grand total of 30 prisoners, so scary! It's a minimum security prison with a focus on community reintegration, it's located within the city for a reason. The people coming from Grierson are the most likely reintegrate into the community and least likely to reoffend. I've worked with the guys from Grierson, they aren't the problem. It's the Remand, Max, and Bowden folks that are an issue and are basically completely unsupported upon release (dropped off at Kingsway usually). And those are magnitude larger prisons.
thommyjo
Senior Member
“Housing” plus all the extra costs for crime, vandalism, emergency services, healthcare surely must be higher than increasing prison capacity at this point. (I’ve read the classic studies on why housing can be cheaper, but I don’t think those are holding up anymore for many of those living in the streets with major drug issues and consistent criminal activity).
Prisons are stupid expensive. But all the people wandering around wrecking our city after serving 3 years for violent assaults and major crimes is so frustrating.
I want to see longer sentences in our legal system and prison management. I’m ok to foot the bill if it means businesses will locate downtown, tourism isn’t scared off, transit gets used, kids/seniors/all people are safe, and our public realm is respected.
The overly empathetic people with 0 belief in accountability gotta smell the roses. It’s failed us.
Prisons are stupid expensive. But all the people wandering around wrecking our city after serving 3 years for violent assaults and major crimes is so frustrating.
I want to see longer sentences in our legal system and prison management. I’m ok to foot the bill if it means businesses will locate downtown, tourism isn’t scared off, transit gets used, kids/seniors/all people are safe, and our public realm is respected.
The overly empathetic people with 0 belief in accountability gotta smell the roses. It’s failed us.
IanO
Superstar
Last night we held our annual friends Christmas party at The Gardens on 102st/s of Jasper.
A guy was inside, ordered beers, passed out, fell to the floor. A bunch of us went over to help, he gets up and starts trying to fight everyone, we tell him it's time to go, 'help' him outside and thank the two senior citizen men who initially tried to help.
Well this guy starts trying to come back in, trying to kick in the door, windows, saying he is going to 'kill us', and so the owner calls 911. This guy is a risk to the public, us, himself and yet even with blood for his efforts of trying to get back in, not a single EPS officer or car arrived. After about 10-15 minutes of fearing for his safety and ours, he walked off threatening others on the street with punches in their direction, falling over, kicking and breaking things.
I recognize that there was no visible weapon and perhaps there were other more serious incidents occurring pulling resources away, but he had assaulted two people, caused damage to a business, stole and was very much a high likelihood to 'reoffend' down the street.
Something is very, very wrong here with an inability to get to call like that in 15minutes on Jasper and 102st in the middle of your CBD.
A guy was inside, ordered beers, passed out, fell to the floor. A bunch of us went over to help, he gets up and starts trying to fight everyone, we tell him it's time to go, 'help' him outside and thank the two senior citizen men who initially tried to help.
Well this guy starts trying to come back in, trying to kick in the door, windows, saying he is going to 'kill us', and so the owner calls 911. This guy is a risk to the public, us, himself and yet even with blood for his efforts of trying to get back in, not a single EPS officer or car arrived. After about 10-15 minutes of fearing for his safety and ours, he walked off threatening others on the street with punches in their direction, falling over, kicking and breaking things.
I recognize that there was no visible weapon and perhaps there were other more serious incidents occurring pulling resources away, but he had assaulted two people, caused damage to a business, stole and was very much a high likelihood to 'reoffend' down the street.
Something is very, very wrong here with an inability to get to call like that in 15minutes on Jasper and 102st in the middle of your CBD.